Illegal Immigration?

I am at school, bored and just wondered what you guys think about illegal immigration, specifically from Mexico?
 
I personally am 100% against it.  It hurts our economy, causes more expense to states to care for them, and has closed almsot 77 hositals near the U.S/Mexico border because they do not get reimbursed.  Plus the annoying thing is that they are perfectly capable of having a stabilized economy, 11 of 22 but prefer not to tax the rich and would rather let the poor come to our country and become our problem.  ANother thing is that the president of Mexico is OUTRAGED that we want to enfore/proctect our border to quite an extent, which is totally hippocritical of him considering at the southern border of Mexico they have their Military, not police but military gaurding their boarders from Guatamalans and many more.  Sorry, its just an irritating thing for me?  Whats your views?  Both positive and negative are welcome!

If the American Indians would have had better imigration laws, they would be in a much better position today.

........................................ there’s no such thing as an American Indian........    and back when the tribes were in control there was no consistent cohesion between the tribes to have large control over the land.   sooooooooo millpond.....  shoosh

But illegal immigration i am completely against, considering the fact that they are slowly starting to say that American isn’t the official language of USA, BUT were paying Medicare dollars to people who aren’t even legally in this country and most likely arent even paying taxes themselves.   Then on top of that they are talking about trying to get a bill passed for them to draw from social security.

Why should we cater to a ******* country that we couldn’t immigrate to even if we wanted to.   US citizens going to Mexico are required to have proof of income in order to even legally live there, BUT we cant get any jobs there because we aren’t Mexican citizens.   No that I would want to move there to being with...... or even be a Mexican citizen.....   

Ultimately illegal immigrants are slowly destroying our economy because they spread like rabbits and take more low paying jobs thereby decreasing the wages that companies are willing to pay and on top of that the reason they can afford to do that is because they are living 7+ people to a house.   Go figure, 7+ people making 5 bucks an hour can afford a house!!   But yeah.... I’m not going anymore into this......

OH.... and to you people who think I’m racist?   FU!!!!   It’s not racist to care about the preservation of your own society.   

I love the american indian statements and thought process etc.... Consider for a minute that we wiped out more native indians than hitler killed people in WWII... who's the tyrant now?  But that's a completely different topic...

As for immigration, I think that mexican workers are crucial to much of our economy, ask any southern state farmer and you'll understand why.  HOWEVER, I believe work type programs are what's needed for this, allow people in legally to work and pay them appropriatly in accordance with what would be a decent wage for their country.  This means they have a good paying job, and american items such as oranges etc. don't jump in price.  Sounds good for both parties, then after 1 year of work allow them to apply for citizenship, any criminal records whatsoever instantly denies you the right to work or live here.  Now onto the part that REALLY ticks me off.... illegal immegrants who are in the U.S. and pregnant, FREE HEALTHCARE, FREE CHILDBIRTH, I just paid over $4000.00 to have my son because I'm a legal citizen.  Then that baby of theirs that's born here is given U.S. citizenship!  Fine, give them free childbirth and such because I'm not going to put a price on human life but then DEPORT them and their kid back to wherever they are from, then if you've been deported once and you come back into the states illegally you get a mandatory 6 months in jail then deported again without the chance of ever gaining citizenship... 

I basically agree for the most part.  In no way do they help our economy, they only hurt it.  The President of Mexico simply encouarages them to come here, let us deal with them, and then expect we give them priority.  As for the illegals picking fruit n' such...you have to realize that before the rush of them someone had to pick them.  And that was Americans.  We dont need them.  Its ridiculous how all of those Latin American support groups claim they have a right to stay here and such.  IF THEY CAME HERE ILLEGALLY, THEY ALREADY BROKE AN AMERICAN LAW!  How can they be trusted that they wont break others?  They just make me sick, angry, and instead of helping jobless Americans our stupid money goes to their healthcare and such.  Check out this link, it makes you sad and angry:(  They are simply worthless.

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/

I think its bs as well.  I dont understand how we can give them rights like an American citizen, but they are ILLEGAL immigrants.  How does that make sense?  I personally feel that anytime some illegal immigrant is caught, they should be immediately shipped out.  I think we need to beef up our border security, we need to start deporting people, and we need to do it now.  With as many illegals as we get crossing our borders every day, its amazing that we dont have more terrorists in our country.  Or, even scarier, imagine how many terrorists there might be, already living here in the States, planning something big and horrible.  Anyone think we DONT need a stronger border enforcement policy?

quote:

ORIGINAL: poser_pilot6

I think its bs as well.  I dont understand how we can give them rights like an American citizen, but they are ILLEGAL immigrants.  How does that make sense?  I personally feel that anytime some illegal immigrant is caught, they should be immediately shipped out.  I think we need to beef up our border security, we need to start deporting people, and we need to do it now.  With as many illegals as we get crossing our borders every day, its amazing that we dont have more terrorists in our country.  Or, even scarier, imagine how many terrorists there might be, already living here in the States, planning something big and horrible.  Anyone think we DONT need a stronger border enforcement policy?

I agree completely!  Except for the deportation, I think they need to have prison time for their first offense.  As I did two research papers on illegal immigration, the majoirty who are deported simply come back with a bettr sense of how to get in the U.S and hide from the Border Patrol.
As for the terrorist thing I agree completly. According to some of that research they have caught upwards of 86 people believed to have ties w/ some sort of terrorist group.  I simply wish Bush would buck up and build a wall.  It needs to have motion detectors every so often to pinpoint where it is being crossed to stop it.  It also should go far into the ground to prevent tunneling.
In my honest opinion, I think the terrorists will strike out country again, and will have made it into the U.S through Mexico.  Then people will be outraged as to why there wasnt more protection, Mexico will say it wanst their fault, and organizations supporting illegal immigration will either go into some sort of hibernating, have a negative look from America, or simply say they couldnt have prevented it.  I wish politcs werent so stupid.  It needs a overhaul thats direct to the point.  Build the wall, simple as that!

I think the answer is to crack down on those employing and housing illegals.
 
If the INS started cracking down and fining companies say $10,000 for each illegal they have working for them or for each illegal theyre renting to, they would stop doing so.  And if nobody would hire them or house them, they would eventually stop coming over here.
 
Anyone who wants to immigrate here thru legal channels and become a citizen and contribute to this country, Ill be the first one to shake their hand and say "welcome".
 
Anyone who wants to enter this country illegally, refuse to learn the language, get jobs so they can send the money back to Mexico, Ill be the first one to say "get out".
 
As for the Indian thing.  Yeah, what happened to them when this country was first being formed was a tragedy.  However, as a result they now live in the most prosperous and best country in the history of the world with opportunities they could only have dreamed of.  I think this country has repaid any debt it may have had to any group simply by becoming the shining city on a hill that it has.

Your legal green card holding resident of the US does not want and will not take the jobs the Mexicans perform. Your economy requires this cheap labour. The farmers isolate themselves by dealing with employment contractors and the contractors don't care. Everyone loses. The Mexicans becuase they forced to live an underworld life and deal with sub-standard living and wage conditions. The US economy loses because there is not the generated tax revenue.
 
The real answer lies in allowing the workers into the courty in a legal controlled manner. I want CA fruit and veggies. You can't buy a new Honda picking fruit so you won't do it. Who will.
 
Mostly, the people you find leaving their country and families are not low-lifes. These are often very good, hard working people we are talking about who want nothing more than a better life for their families.

Good evening and morning to those who are reading and posting in here.
I want to commend all of you who can and are keeping a civil toungue while posting about this serious subject..Mabro..keep your vulgar wording out ..Thank You!.
This is an intellegent discussion and all of you are posting in it very well...Thank You All Very Much!
 
WheelBrokerAng

I don't think we should kick them out if they are finding a job and trying to become legal citizens...It's the ones that come up here and starts selling drugs and getting into gangs are the ones we should kick out, but you can't really tell when they sneak across the border. A man who can't get enough money to support his family and goes to america to get a job is the man who should live here. The man who comes up here to sell drugs to local gangs should be launched from a circus cannon on the border and shoot him atleast 30 miles south.
 
And as for the language changing...English should always be the primary language, but we are going to have to learn another language because of the diverse society we live in.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trav20


And as for the language changing...English should always be the primary language, but we are going to have to learn another language because of the diverse society we live in.

I completely disagree.  Learning the language of people immigrating to our country does not make any sense.  Look at it from this stand point.  If I or you were to go to say Germany, would you expect people their to know English and have an expectation of them to conform to you?  I would think not.  If I were going to Germany I would use common sense and have either a book or take a class to learn German.

In my opinion, thinking that someone will conform to your language is ridiculous, not only that but it can be costly too with hiring interpretors and what not.  Just my .02.

for what it is worth i will throw in my 2 cents worth >>
I totally agree that we should not learn their language but if any  aliens come to US it is their responsability to learn OUR language ..
i feel that the reason a  lot of mexicans illigally come to US is # 1  for the LOVE of their family to better themselves of the way of living .. if they had a good living i am sure they would not go to a different country and # 2 because they cannot come here legally ...and # 3 ,, because if they get caught  what does the US government do ??? gives them a ride in a car back to the border ,, so what do they do?? jump the fence and try again  a day or 2 later , at this rate they might try numerous times untill they finally  make it in to stay .... I think there should be strickter laws if someone is caught illigally ..and not just a nice car ride back

having said that if i were on the same shoes as some of these people and i thought that i could better my family's way of living  i would do it as well,,  family ALWAYS comes first ..
Now the thing that REALLY upsets me , is the fact that  they come over to US purposely the  day  when they are due  have babies , and what does the US government do ?? brings them into the hospital, takes care of them and all AT NO COST TO THEM .. and what happens if you are an Americam Citizen , paying taxes ,, you get a kick in the ass unless you have insurance ,, Oh they will take you in  but than they will bill you so you got to pay or the collection agency will knock on your door and your credit will be totally ruined  and you might lose some of your possessions .
we have to be good Humans and take care of people in need but the US should take care of their OWN people first , WE  and our kids are the ones that sacrifices our lives to defend this country and go to war ,, ask that of an illigal immigrant,,( good old U.S, government ) and see how far you get ..

Im with 19Accord97 and deserthonda on the language thing.  I wouldnt go to live in Japan and expect them to know English, I would expect that I would need to know Japanese, since IM the foreigner there.

I think that there should be a program that trades military service for citizenship.  If you want legal residence in the US, you do three years in the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, or Coast Guard.  You do your three years, you and your wife (or husband, if the wife is the one that joined) and kids get your residence.  If you get kicked out for not being able to cut it or getting in trouble, well, you get to go back to your country.  If you die in the service of this great country, your family gets legal residence anyway.  This would bring new recruits into the military (which desperately needs more troops) and would give us more tax paying citizens.  Thats my two cents.

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ORIGINAL: 19Accord97

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trav20


And as for the language changing...English should always be the primary language, but we are going to have to learn another language because of the diverse society we live in.

I completely disagree.  Learning the language of people immigrating to our country does not make any sense.  Look at it from this stand point.  If I or you were to go to say Germany, would you expect people their to know English and have an expectation of them to conform to you?  I would think not.  If I were going to Germany I would use common sense and have either a book or take a class to learn German.

In my opinion, thinking that someone will conform to your language is ridiculous, not only that but it can be costly too with hiring interpretors and what not.  Just my .02.

 
Ok maybe i didn't go into much detail...it would be better to know the language of the immigrants who are primarily coming here. Im not going to learn german because there are more spanish speaking people moving here than there are germans. Might as well learn spanish anyways(common sense wise) because I doubt it if we put a 50 foot tall&wide concrete wall along the border would stop them from getting here. They are always going to find a way to get here whether they get killed in the process or not America is what they want.
 
Plus if you have had any history knowledge...We pretty much stole the the southern states from about texas to southern california. Don't you think they want that back. Why do you think the native americans are so pissed, because we came here killed them then took their land. This is basically what is happening to us...don't you think karma is getting back to us?

I tend to agree with Trav.  Yeah, they are coming here and should learn our language, but the reality is they are not and it would be in our benefit to probably have a very basic understanding of their language.  Have you all watched the episode of "Hogan Knows Best" where they go shopping around Miami and are having trouble communicating due to the high population of spanish speakers?  I thought that was funny. 

I would also like to point out to those who say illegals don't pay taxes, that in fact they do.  In states like California, where we have a sales tax, they pay taxes on products they buy.  Also someone also stated earlier that illegals are buying houses.  So wouldn't they also being paying property taxes as well?  When it comes to federal, since they are working under the table, yeah they are not paying taxes.  Let's just not forget they are paying taxes at the local and state level.

I meant, If I were moving to or visiting to another country I would have no expectation of them learning or knowing English for me.  Instead, I would learn their language.

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Plus if you have had any history knowledge...We pretty much stole the the southern states from about texas to southern california. Don't you think they want that back. Why do you think the native americans are so pissed, because we came here killed them then took their land. This is basically what is happening to us...don't you think karma is getting back to us?

So basically your saying our ancestors should never have left England to come here?  If you say that about the Indians, and the Spanish well then the whole world is practically living on land that was never theirs in the first place.  Everyone moved, and fought wars to gain land, so in saying that....then most everyone is technically living on land that is not technically theirs.But another thing is that our ancestors did what they did.  We had no part in it, what they did is done.  Simple as that. 
I know what our ancestors did wasnt exactly fair or moral, but how did we have any part in that?  We couldnt have changed that.

Also, if you think its okay that people come into this country illegally and break laws, then shouldnt it be ok for someone to murder someone else? Breaking a law is breaking a law.  Laws are what our country is based upon, its how we survive.

They arent coming back because the land was theirs, they are coming back for America.  I would much rather pay more for fruit and veggies than for their medical treatments and schooling.  Thats ridiculous, they are stealing money from people of Medicare and from American citizens who pay for those programs.  Why pay for people who shouldnt be here in the first place when we have true American citizens starving and even homeless?  Besides, before this mass parade of illegals, there has always been someone to pick fruit, correct?

As for poor Mexico...come on.  If you did some research you would discover it is possibly the most wimpy and hippocritical countries in the world.  Heres Why:
-They complain about the U.S putting up a wall:
--Mexico has one of the most heavily armed borders in this hemisphere.  They have military gaurding their southern border to keep the Guatamalans and many more out.  Plus, they have tons of reports of killing and beating people.  But yet it is totally in humane if we do it.  Ridiculous....

-Mexico claims they are finacially unable to have a strong economy:
--Uh, maybe because Mexico doesnt tax the rich.  Instead of bucking up, they choose the easy way out; let America deal with them and pay for their healthcare and education.  They dont try to do anything about it.  The people of Mexico should unite, protest, and try to create a government of their own to their liking. 

-The Mexican president promotes crossing into the U.S illegally and has actually made pamphlets on how to survive in the desert...but remeber, they dont want any illegal immigrants in their country.

I see where you are coming from but I don't agree with you when you say that coming here illegally is like murder. I don't have a problem with us moving here...I have a problem with us killing the native americans to gain ground. We should have lived with them instead of killing them. Living with us isn't killing us. I think if they really want to live here then so be it. We can't change the fact they are moving here. If you didn't already know that there are jobs that most of us wouldn't want to do but the people moving here take that job like it is the only job on the planet. I think it is stupid for us to say they are hypocritical...when you are buying something-you want the least expensive product and when you are selling something-you want the most money you can get out of it...all of us are hypocrites. The mexican government is really financially in the dumps...my dad used to do business with mexico with a company called ditch witch. He would travel there every 2 weeks, and he would tell us how bad it is there. Not all countries are like America.
 
Some people don't realize mexicans don't have it as good as us but we complain that they jump the border to live a better life. If we keep sending these people back we could possibly have another war on our hands...and we don't want another war...believe me. (how does that sound though-Mexican-American War II or MAWII)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 19Accord97

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trav20


And as for the language changing...English should always be the primary language, but we are going to have to learn another language because of the diverse society we live in.

I completely disagree.  Learning the language of people immigrating to our country does not make any sense.  Look at it from this stand point.  If I or you were to go to say Germany, would you expect people their to know English and have an expectation of them to conform to you?  I would think not.  If I were going to Germany I would use common sense and have either a book or take a class to learn German.

In my opinion, thinking that someone will conform to your language is ridiculous, not only that but it can be costly too with hiring interpretors and what not.  Just my .02.

I agree with you on this language..when I went to Viet nam I took it upon my self to learn Vietnamese or I wouldn't be getting any...of what I wanted  so I learned it enough to get what I wanted  and what I needed ...
 
WheelBrokerAng

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trav20
If we keep sending these people back we could possibly have another war on our hands...and we don't want another war...believe me. (how does that sound though-Mexican-American War II or MAWII)

Are you scared of the Mexicans lol?  The only country that could even hope to touch us (in conventional warfare, disregarding nukes) is China, and thats only because they have so damn many troops.  I think we could run through Mexico in about a month, tops.

I agree, the killing wasnt necessary but what can we do?  Seriously?  That happened a long time ago, we cant bring them back.  Did you or I have any say in it?  No.

But still they are breaking laws.  You cant just overlook that. Basically you are saying "because so many are breaking the law, we shouldnt do anything about it."  correct?  If you use that logic, well then, a long time ago everyone was killing Native Americans so in your thinking process that should have made it okay, correct?

Maybe this link will change your mind.  As you will see, Americans DO do jobs that supposedly no one will do.
http://www.vdare.com/walker/mexico_the_rich.htm
http://www.washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20051201-081528-7276r.htm

or this one.  Look at how they hurt Americans when we have done NOTHING to them.  Mexicans think it is cool to drive drunk, but I suppose its cool to when they crash and kill people too.  Or when they break into houses and threaten/kill people at gun point.

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/

How arent they hypocritical when they have one of the most heavily defended borders SPECIFICALLY to keep foreigners out, and then go crazy and get mad when we TALK about making ours stronger?  How is that not hypocritical?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trav20

I see where you are coming from but I don't agree with you when you say that coming here illegally is like murder. I don't have a problem with us moving here...I have a problem with us killing the native americans to gain ground. We should have lived with them instead of killing them. Living with us isn't killing us. I think if they really want to live here then so be it. We can't change the fact they are moving here. If you didn't already know that there are jobs that most of us wouldn't want to do but the people moving here take that job like it is the only job on the planet. I think it is stupid for us to say they are hypocritical...when you are buying something-you want the least expensive product and when you are selling something-you want the most money you can get out of it...all of us are hypocrites. The mexican government is really financially in the dumps...my dad used to do business with mexico with a company called ditch witch. He would travel there every 2 weeks, and he would tell us how bad it is there. Not all countries are like America.

Some people don't realize mexicans don't have it as good as us but we complain that they jump the border to live a better life. If we keep sending these people back we could possibly have another war on our hands...and we don't want another war...believe me. (how does that sound though-Mexican-American War II or MAWII)

 
In reference to all of what you said, if you have to go somewhere illegally to have a better life, i think its rather counter productive to say they are doing whats right even if they are breaking a law of an entire country just to make their own lives better.   But in the end, most of them jump the border so their family can have a better life, most of them send their money back to mexico to support their families.  But im glad you ignore the fact that criminals form mexico have illegally entered america just as much as the non criminals of that country.  And if a war is started because people from another country are breaking our laws I say bring it, because after innocent people are slaughtered just so they can have their way, americans will call for blood, and this time it wouldnt be 4000+ miles away from our country.   
Was this country originally ours? no, but its wasnt mexico's either  making the arguement that we took parts of it from them, but not arguing about who they took it from is kinda pointless, besides, a lot of them were from spain anyways.   
And no of course not all country's are like america, thats why most of the world hates us, yet expects us to clean up after them.  The rest of the world expects a lot from a country with the largest monetary debt in the world.

I love being flamed...it is so fun!
 
Well im not afraid of mexicans I just dont want another war.
 
As for hypocritical things, yes, it is hypocritical of them to do that but it is also stupid to be a jerk to them when they are trying to live a better life. They can't control what their government does. It is hard(and somewhat racist) to pinpoint the hypocrite on the mexican race. If you were to stand on the border and call every mexican who crosses that border a hypocrite, be my guest.
 
See what I'm getting at, you are complaining about two different bodies but grouping it as one. The mexican government is hypocritical, yes I KNOW, but their people aren't. It's almost like it is here..."America goes to Iraq" but the people don't want to go(that explains the protesters in Washington D.C.
 
As for criminals from mexico, I said that earlier today...

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I don't think we should kick them out if they are finding a job and trying to become legal citizens...It's the ones that come up here and starts selling drugs and getting into gangs are the ones we should kick out, but you can't really tell when they sneak across the border...The man who comes up here to sell drugs to local gangs should be launched from a circus cannon on the border and shoot him atleast 30 miles south.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trav20

 If you were to stand on the border and call every mexican who crosses that border a hypocrite, be my guest.

LMAO!  Okay, now that just is hilarious to think about.  haha  Its be like 2 in the morning, you hear bushes crunch and whisper hyyyyyypooooocrit to them crossing the border.  lmao  Okay, just seems funny in my mind.  But I also see what you are getting at as well.  I suppose we just have different opinions.....lets the strongest man win!!  (Or the fastest Accord) haha jk

I just say for all the illegals to go back, and keep more from entering illegally.  Hoo rah!

Just curious.  People seem to be saying crminals get through, and i'm sure they do, but does anyone have a statistic of what percentage of illegal immigrants are criminals?