is it better to have more torque or more horsepower? - Page 2

yuppers, ultimately there is some energy loss because the torque converter doesnt create the same physical connection that the manual trans does. But as a side note, the advancements in automatics has been very significant so that problem is all that much smaller with newer cars. So in the end its left to the actual gearing of the transmission vs it being the difference between an auto and a manual

As a future note, a person who claims to have faith defeats themselves when they say they only deal with fact, because faith is a result of the absense of factual truth.

that is why I limited my comments to a specific situation where it is applicable. There is energy loos with an auto but it does not come into play during launch because of the advantages you get when you launch. Once the the converter locks up, then the losses due to the converter are negated since there is a direct coupling just like in a manual trans.

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ORIGINAL: As a future note, a person who claims to have faith defeats themselves when they say they only deal with fact, because faith is a result of the absense of factual truth.

Uhm you need to take this the apperiate thread and this one isn't it. Thanks

And this response required a second post?

u might get a small temporary increase in torque... to the point of moving ur car but thats it... ur launch will be much slower and MUCH weaker then any manual... its a proven fact but whatever

care to vack that up with some facts instead of just rambling on? I have provided my facts......

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ORIGINAL: YeuEmMaiMai

care to vack that up with some facts instead of just rambling on? I have provided my facts......

A five speed will let you rev the engine up to a good power produceing rpm before launching. That's a pretty good fact.

you can do the same exact thing with an auto. It's called stall speed and you can have it set to anything you want at the time you set up and install your torque converter. It is not uncommon for racing ones to be set to 5K or higher.

Another fact. Automatics can outshift a good or lower stick driver anyday. The automatic is far more consisitant and that is why they are making a strong comeback in drag racing....

Like i said, the technology behind the auto's have improved greatly, if you put an early 90's auto against an 2000 auto the 2000 will win because the technology behind the mechanical design and electronics is much better, I have a 98 and it shifts through gears as fast a person whos speed shifting. Then you have a high stall torque converter which it get you more jump off the line, even though the car becomes worthless for daily driving.

Legion, heres my question...... have you ever driven a 350z auto? I can tell you right now you will never be able to shift gears as quickly and smoothly as that auto does, and you definetly wont have the exact same shift consistency.

well gimme a nismo setup with a short shifter and a act stage 3 racing clutch and ur on... but yeh automatics just mean perfect shifts... but they also dont leave any room for kicking the clutch... double clutching... (thats when u hold ur foot to the floor durring a shift it lets ur engine rev all the way and then u RE launch almost giving u a considerable speed boost)... and u definately loose power... o and control... (unless u have a ghey autostick then i guess u dont loose as much control) but the consistancy thing is why they are being used in drag racing... top fuel dragsters still run good old manuals... 2 speed manuals at that... u should see the fused clutches they have to pull out of the trannys after every run... its sick... u have to the smell of every fluid or sealant burning to work with those engines :) thats why im studying to build Rails :) Chassis fab and high performance baby :)

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ORIGINAL: YeuEmMaiMai

you can do the same exact thing with an auto. It's called stall speed and you can have it set to anything you want at the time you set up and install your torque converter. It is not uncommon for racing ones to be set to 5K or higher.

Dont see many high stall converters on hondas where i'm at. I'd hate to see what a 7000+ stall converter would be like on the street. That's where my civics like to launch.

3200 is a average high stall torque converter

I need stronger axles to drop from that high. I already snapped an axle dropping it at 5k. I think I'd need a different motor to drop it from that high actually...

At 7000 RPMS that's got to be one serious launch!

how the heck do u hook at 7k? i would think u would just sit there and slip

i would rather have more tq then hp. cuz in a race u dont race past like 100 on the street. if u have alot of tq u can smoke the other guy off the line and maybe get far enough were they wont be able to catch u

stall speed on a 6th gen accord is approximately 2100 RPM

did i say stock torque converter a 3200 is the most common HIGH STALL! they are the best because they allow for non jumpy start and stops and maximize day to day drivability...

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ORIGINAL: 02BlueAccord

i would rather have more tq then hp. cuz in a race u dont race past like 100 on the street. if u have alot of tq u can smoke the other guy off the line and maybe get far enough were they wont be able to catch u

i mostly drive on the high way and when i race it usally from 80-115 to 120 i think thats when gov limits it. So i rather have more Hp i guess right its good cause at 80-100 its in 3rd gear with vtec roaring.

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ORIGINAL: legionofone

how the heck do u hook at 7k? i would think u would just sit there and slip

Slicks, need to spin em over a bit to keep from breaking stuff as much.

Yeah, but thats only considering the small b series engine maybe d series? i cant remember what the other common smaller engine swapped into a civic is. But only those engines are worth dropping that into..... you could never safely do that to an f or h series, it just becomes too unstable, but an engine that can rev up to 10/11k scares me when it comes to catastrophic engine failure..... the rod going through the whole car in half a second intsead of just the engine block.

Just imagine a built up b series engine with a t60 turbo and that 7000 high stall

You can rev any auto up to a certain point for a better launch, its just a matter of when your engine over powers the cars brakes. And sure, if you get to have an extra $100k for upgrades then the 350z gets that as well ^_- Its just too bad though, the 350z would still be easy to drive on the street with 100k in mods and an auto... stop and go traffic > stage 3 clutch lol

*CHIRP*

I could be wrong but couldnt you rev up the engine in netrual with auto trans then hold the button down and rip it to D1 and get a big lunch like that?

You can, but I don't think the trans is gonna care for that too much. I've gotten a big launch by just dropping it from neutral to D4, but I haven't done it but once (same reason). A little safer way to get a good launch on an auto is braking hard in D1 and revving it up. Works for D4 as well.

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ORIGINAL: HondaRacer4Vtec

I could be wrong but couldnt you rev up the engine in netrual with auto trans then hold the button down and rip it to D1 and get a big lunch like that?

Your likely to lunch your transmission that way.

ok.... and auto trans IS NOT MADE TO DO THAT never do that, its no different then shifting into reverse when you driving forward, your going to damage the transmission assuming you dont destroy first gear or the transmission itself. Thats why have different stall rates on the torque converters cause thats the only way to properly do that.

But if you really dont care about your auto, go ahead a neutral drop it a few times