Turbo Help!!!

My buddy and myself installed the turbo in my 96 accord this weekend. went to crank it up and it's just horrible. It seems like whenver you hit the gas (boost or no boost) the motor just wants to quit. If you go easy on the throttle, you can get the motor to drive normally, but as soon as you give it a little more gas, it starts to die (the car will barely get to 0 psi). According to my air fuel ratio gauge, I am going severly lean as i approach boost (or even when I push the gas). I am using a 12:1 FMU and have tried reversing to connetions to it to see if that changes anything. I am also using a missing link MAP bypass. Anyone else ever had a similar problem? Thanks for any help.

hey....good luck with that.. youve given us so little to work with. if you have the missing link or the fmu hooked up wrong your car is going to run horribly. let me start with this

- turbo
a great turbo to get is a second generation mitsubishi eclipse turbo/ T3-T4 garret/airresearch

-wastegate
turbonetics deltagate with a 7psi spring

-manifold
can be purchased or custom made at the shop. a simple log style manifold can work very well and is the cheapest. a tubular manifold is more efficient and costs a little more

-intercooler
can also be taken off a mits eclipse but a slightly larger front mount intercooler would work best.

-blow off valve
hks or other quality brand

-boost dependant FMU (fuel pressure regulator)
vortech FMU

-manifold pressure bleeder
synapse missing link

-high volume fuel pump
walbro 255lph




now up there is the fuel pump....did you put a good one in? i think this may be your biggest problem but i will go over some other things.

your map. if it is reading boost your car will misfire....is it? put a guage on the line leading to the map what does it say?

the fmu...you have to have this hooked up right and you should be running a vortech. this may sound stupid....but there are THREE lines that hook up to it. fuel in fuel out and BOOST. make sure that when the turbo starts to spool that there is boost in that line.

if there isnt enough fuel pressure in the line to support boost then your car is going to run bad.

I tried to swap the two fuel lines on the FMU (it is a vortech style). I think i had the fuel line going into the rail coming from the outlet on the fmu that is dead center on the bottom (not the one with the 90). I have the vacuum line connected and it is run straight from the manifold. I checked for vacuum, so I would assume boost would also get to it.

I tried to mess with the missing link. I made sure it was on there and made sure the check valve was functioning (it worked). I never threw a code for hi MAP reading either. The engine seems like it is really lacking on fuel, even before I'm getting boost. I think it's cutting out rather than misfiring, but I could be wrong. I have not replaced the fuel pump or injectors.

Bad FMU? Not enough fuel pressure (even at low RPM?)? Thanks for your help so far, lightshow!

well it sounds like your not getting enough fuel. i have heard of people using the stock injectors on cars making 400 hp so i dont think its that. but....even your stock fuel pump should be able to support 'some' boost. the fuel pump should be upgraded but i think the boost line your running to the fmu is not right or the fmu itself is not right. let us know how its going. another stupid thing though...make sure the fmu is hooked up to the fuel return line and not the line coming into the rail.

This is pretty random but make sure the seals for your MAP are good, if any air can get through there it wont throw a code. I found this out when changing my throttle body.

what no more posts? thats bull you should be up all dang night figuring out why your cars not ripping down the street.

Sorry bro, I know I should be up all night (and I was basically. How could I sleep with my car like this??!). Now wait a sec man. I know that I have the FMU coming hooked up to the incoming fuel line. I noticed a return line that ran from the factory installed fuel pressure regulator, but the FMU isn't hooked up to that. Dang man, I feel stupid as heck. Do you think this is the problem??

if the fmu is hooked up to the incoming line.........this is 100 percent the problem with your car. let me explain.

the fmu essencialy blocks the incoming fuel increasing the fuel pressure so that when the injector opens. more fuel comes out. if you put the fmu before the fuel rail.....it is going to stop the fuel from going to the injectors.



the fmu absolutely positively must be installed aft of the fuel rail AND the stock regulator. so that when it senses boost. it will increase the amount of fuel pressure in the rail. good luck your not dumb turbos are extremely difficult to install. let us know how it worked out.

Here's an update.

The FMU was the major problem. I put that where it should be and that fixed the fuel cut off problem. The manifold I had made for me was warped (like a bow), and was leaking mad on the sides. I machined some metal off and got it even and bolted back up. Time for a test drive.

The turbo spools up very nicely in 1st gear, resulting in a myself getting thrown back in my seat. I like that part! Shift to second (and other gears) and the turbo doesn't spool up as nice. I'm not sure if it's just no spinning (why would it matter gear to gear?) or that boost is leaking out. I also go very lean in second at WOT, so I am instinctively backing off the gas, which could be the cause of the lack of boost.

I noticed that the wastegate (hks style) and bov (raptor style) have 2 vacuum inlets. I am only using one on each (the tops ones). Should I hook up the other ports? Also, I do not have an inline fuel pump, which could cause the lean out I assume.

As soon as this stuff gets all working, I'm looking at one very mean car.
Thanks for all the help!

yea just one hose on each one is just fine. boost creep and surge and stuff and just general maximum boost is something you will have to fine tune when you get it running real good. you dont want to go over 7 or8 psi on the system. as long as you hear the bov blowing off....its working just fine. if you dont hear it, you may have it hooked up wrong and it could be stopping the turbo dead, so it doesnt spool well when you get into second. but i think the reason your turbo isnt spooling well in second is your lack of fuel. you need to get more fuel to that system. a weak a$$ lean mixture is not going to be able to bring the turbo to tip speed. plus i think a few more hard lean runs and you MAY need an engine rebuild. i would think about changing your plugs right now because they are probably toastttt. you need to get an inline pump or the walbro in tank pump. good luck let us know how it goes im glad i was able to help.

I know the motor wasn't pinging and I wasn't real hard on it. As I saw the mix go lean, I really backed off it. I just put in some new platinum 2's, so I hope I didn't kill them. I have the walbro 255 on order, but I heard it wasn't great for a FMU type setup. Should i order an inline one (like the MSD?). I plan to run 6-7 lbs untill I build the motor.

I also noticed that the BOV seems to stay partially open at idle. Do I need to mess with the screww on top?

Turbo sound and BOV sound were good and hope the fuel pump will cure my lean condition. I'm also throwing a CEL code, so i'll have to look into that (probably something to do with my missing link).

Thanks for all the help man!

yea bosch plugs will blow your coil so you should change those out anyway. sounds like your bov is working just fine. the CEL is probably because of the extreme lean condition. yea an inline pump like msd would also work great. i actually recommend using the walbro, i think it works great with honda setup which usually use a FMU, but everyone has their opinion. yea but only use ngk plugs. your car may actually run a lot better with some good plugs in it. those plugs youre using now are producing a very weak spark, which is not what is needed in a boosted environment.

My sister's fiance turned me onto the bosch plugs. I never really understood the point of them, but he swore by them. You say they blow out coils? I had an MSD Blaster coil that lasted maybe a 1/10 of a day before it went dead (using platinum 4's) . Hmm that explains things...

yea thats definately why that coil went toast. they will actually give you bad gas mileage and reduce hp too. bosch plugs in an audi or something german like that are great, but in a honda......ngk only.

I'm considering the Apexi Super AFC 2. Any thoughts on this? I was also wondering what my stock MAP sensor can handle.

I got the NGK's. I'll be tweaking my car today, so I'll have an update later. Hopefully all goes well.

yea the super afc is a good unit, but is not needed. the map sensor is not actually reading any boost because of the synapse. but, if you try to run more than 7 to 8 psi you will probably break your motor (on the stock timing) :) .........save your money cause once you get it dialed in, i have some tips for you to safely turn up your boost and crank up the hp to about 250-270 at the crank. (if running 7 psi right now you should be around 200)

Hahahaha. My accord lives. The lean condition I spoke of happens as the turbo approaches 1 psi or so. Then it goes rich like it should. I'm not sure about this, but it's kind of annoying (I still have to put in the new fuel pump). Any way...

Turbo spools nicley. BOV sounds great. Aside from this minor fuel issue things look good. I thought I bought a wastegate with a 6lb spring, but my gauge has read closer to 8 (once almost to 10). I'm wondering what's up with this. Should I use the little outlet on the compressor housing to give the wastegate what it needs?

I can't wait to hear the tips. Man, this has been an awesome project and I know it's just the begining. Thanks for the help so far, lightshow!

yes absolutely.....the outlet on the compressor side of the turbo needs to be hooked up to the wastegate for it to operate. it doesnt sound like the wastegate is working right now. i bet those new plugs made a difference. the first thing youll need to turn up the boost is a manual boost controller. i like the real simple design of the ball and spring type heres a real cheap one.

boost controller

then i would recommend a cam shaft with a turbo profile on it. gude and AEBS both make a great product for around 2-3 hundred bucks. it will make more power at whatever boost level your running. also, it would be a good idea to get a front mount intercooler if you dont have one. doesnt need to be real big maybe 12 by 24. now to run more boost you have to change the ignition timing in relation to the amount of boost that you are running. it a real simple ignition system change and should cost around 3-4 hundred. you want to retard the timing per each pound of boost that you run. we can talk more about that later.

you just dont want to have any detonation. your motor was designed to handle about 300 hp, and it should very safely handle 250 without changing out the rods or closing the deck. you have to get the wastegate to work though because boost creep and surge is no good.

Well, thinking ahead, I installed an MSD boost master timing unit before the install. I'm the last person to want detonation in my motor. Currently, it is set to kick in at about 2 psi. I didn't realize that my stock internals could handle about 300 hp, but I guess that makes sense as long as detonation isn't present. I also have a front mount intercooler. I'll look for a good turbo cam and that boost controller. I'll also switch out the line that feeds my wastegate.

Any idea about the deadspot in my fuel system? It seems to lose fuel briefly around 1 psi or so, and then like magic it's back. It's kind of annoying since as the boost kicks in, the car looses power and then regains it.

Even though he says it can handle 300 hp stock....... dont ever take it that high..... If you change the rods pistons and rings by all means then do it, but the pressure you would be putting on the stock rings at 300hp would destroy them, just run 7 or 8 psi until you decide to rebuild the engine. Side note, if you have an auto trans. it wont handle 300hp. and at about 225hp if not lower, you need a transmission cooler.

No auto trans here, but that's still good advice for anyone with auto out there. I think my problem with my fuel system is that I still have to upgrade my pump. Other than that, things seem good for now...

I plan on doing rings, rods, and pistons in a few months. Maybe when I get a week off.

You lucky sob, Im eventually going to break down and convert my auto to a standard. And yes, I am jealous of anyone who drives a standard, which is why I frequently take my friends 05 2door accord for a spin. I love the fact that thing has enough power to chirp the tires in second gear.
But I hope the fuel pump fixes your problem.

you know....your fuel pump really shouldnt cause a not smooth transition between no boost and boost. what lines are you using to hook up your fmu and your bov? you should have a 5 way vacuum 'T' hooked in between your manifold, and your STOCK fuel pressure regulator.......leaving 3 vacuum lines. one should go to the BOV, the other should go to the FMU, and the last one should go to the boost guage inside the car. the new fuel pump may also very well fix the problem, i was looking around at some other turbo honda setups in my area and they all use the walbro fuel pump with an fmu im not sure what that other guy was telling you.. if you have any other line feeding the fmu there might be some lag involved which could cause that dead spot. the setup you have should have a really smooth transition though, i think it just needs to be dialed in. and yea marbro is right i wouldnt go as high as 300 on your motor.....id definately do 250 though :)

I have the FMU and BOV connected to one of the vacuum ports on the driver's side of the car. It was originally capped of since it was not used. I would have ran a tee fitting of the boost gauge line (I think it's running off another port on the side of the manifold), but I didn't want to overload one line.

Yeah, "settling" for 250 is probably the way to go. I don't think I would mind too much...

That boost contoller looks interesting. Might be a good few bucks spent as soon as things smooth out.

thats definately your problem then. you wont overload the line if you put all three on it, thats how it should be hooked up. all three units dont release any of the vacuum. just try it the t fitting is only a few bucks, just cut the line going to the stock regulator and put the t fitting in there and hook everything up on to the fitting. i bet your transition will be so much smoother. yea those simple manual boost controllers work extremely well. an expensive controller will work good too, but my favorite turbo setup is a budget one. turbo xs has a great product that i have seen in action its a solenoid that can have two different settings on it that you can change from inside the car. try that 5 way t though....you seriously wont overload the line.