Spurred on by you, I just went out and spent a hard 45 minutes pulling the back seat cushions and back-rests and access panel off. It's mostly a mix of 10mm for the cushions and some 13 and/or 14mm for the flanges and I accidentally pulled the seat belt off. I started on the side-cushion on the right and worked over to the left until I had it all out. The seats have a snap to the cloth that comes off exposing the bolts. So the wires are all toast but I will have to await tomorrow to check for 12v. And I will continue forwards through the front seats.

Thanks PAHonda

Here is a before and after pic(s) of the unfolding (hopefully a comedy and not a tragedy - hopefully the metal plate keeps the critters out. I'll have to look into my service manual now that the hard labor is done - tomorrow or tonight I'll get back to this after a brief rest - the last pic shows an overview and also detail so it's the most important pic, the others are just to show what it looked like before I vacuumed:

 

Sorry, the pics I posted at 4:19pm, just didn't quite show the 3P of harness C536 coming into harness C751 (page 23-33 in the service manual (wagon)), but they are there and I've unhooked them for test purposes. C536 is carrying voltage into the fuel pump area from the front of the car. C751 goes down inside the little silver panel over the fuel sender, and ultimately powers the fuel pump and carries the info from the fuel sender. The fuel pump and fuel sender connections are in fact hidden underneath the floor (hence why gas tank would need to be removed). These two conenctions are C753 (fuel pump) and C752 (sender). The fact that they are hidden doesn't really bother me as I have a whole world of testing I can still do. I have no reason to believe there is anything major wrong (the fuel pump might still buzz fuel). I just have to start diagnosing what's going on now that I can see the main connection coming in. Yes, it is entirely possible that the little critters crawled under the car and got on top of the gas tank and gnawed. Only time will tell, as after a little rain delay, I'll first check that C536 gets it's voltage (it probably does). If it doesn't, then there is hope that it's towards the front of the car (unlikely as that part of the car seems less gnawed on). I could even rehook up the connector, hook up the battery, and turn the ignition on and listen for a fuel pump since my ear would be very close to it now. I just have to pick a method and diagnose. If worse comes to worse, I'll have to pull the tank.

I need to go out and try something now.


In order to fully test whether or not the fuel pump is getting power, I need to short pins 4 and 5 on the PGM-FI relay 7P connector so I need to find that relay/connector, I believe it's near the steering wheel but I need to go out and prove this. The service manual page 23-25 shows where connector C430, it's harness is - under the dash, and the relay is shown on page 23-9 (same place, under the dash). So I should be able to run a test. It's not impossible that the PGM-FI system is inhibiting the fuel pump from getting it's proper power so I need to start there. If I think optimistically, the fact that the ignition does not work (forcing me to use the remote starter to crank), could mean that the PGM-FI system is also not working correctly although perhaps key on is powering it up - I don't know yet.

 

I have now located the PGM-FI relay/fuel relay/main relay, or whatever it's called. My only problem is that it's to the right of the steering wheel back behind another cable. It has a brown connector and is a grey box. I tried to pull it down but it didn't come so now I need to figure out how to get it off. Some people pull the circuit board out but I need the whole thing so I can unhook the connector. I would even like just the connector. Not sure how to proceed from here but perhaps I can find a video.

It's very, very difficult for my body to fit inside there so I may just continue to pull the carpets and seats out. I will have a huge amount of wiring to replace anyway. So tomorrow I can try to get that connector off or get the whole thing down - it may have a bolt on it or something.

 

An idea just occured to me to use a camera, then analyze the picture to figure out what to do - perhaps a few pics and I'll know what to do.

 

I guess I can pry those grey tabs and drop the relay down? Update: I went on ebay and now realize that the relay is the female part of the brown connection AND the grey box. I tried to find a bolt on the grey box but couldn't fine one after taking many photos. Perhaps it slides out? I believe the grooves on the relay on ebay are how it slides in and out of the metal bracket. I believe I just need to slide it out (starting with 1997 there is no longer a bolt holding it on). So I'll try that next time. From the location of the grooves on the grey box, I would need to slide up or down but only up would make sense as it would then be held by gravity on some stub. If it were down it would only have friction holding it and it might not work, so I'll try to slide it up next time.

I will probably be pulling the front seats and carpet since the carpet has been bitten through - it would not surprise me if C536 is simply bitten through and everything else is ok, or nearly everything else.

I assume the below pics are the relay. The ignition wires nearby look pretty good.

 

Use a pocket screwdriver to pull those tabs and the connector and circuit board will pull out easily.

 

It took me 4 hours to push my 4250 lb. wagon into the garage where it will be easier to work on for a while, so I need to give my back a rest for the afternoon.

Tomorrow, I'll either slide that relay out or as you say, flick the tabs and tilt it out of the grey box.

But in the long-term, I already have about 20 or 30 wires bitten through, so I will pull ALL of the rest of the carpeting, tools, and seats out. But I can relax, since I'm in a comfy space to work on the job.

An 80 year-old man helped me push the car out into the street, then 2 passersby joined in, and we got the car out of the street. But it took me 2 more hours of rocking and pulling alone to get it all the way up a slight slope. I am not in a hurry to put power onto the fuel pump as I might pull the plate with 3 screws to see if I can see towards the fuel pump area.

Anyone know if I only see a fuel sender if I pull that plate?

I am guessing that shorts are only allowing about 7 volts or so to get to the fuel pump (my meter read about 7 volts), so I need to fix those shorts first. But pulling the relay will help in this diagnosis.

But for safety reason, I will not rush to start the engine anymore. Even if it takes a couple weeks of harness pullling/replacing, no problem. I can ride my bike in the meantime, and I have an old motor scooter that I might be able to rejuvenate - someone gave it to me 4 years ago, and I've never had time to work on it. If I get that scooter to work, then I've got motorized transport.

It comes down to safety, I don't think I should mess too much with the fuel pump until I can see it somehow. Admittedly, I might have to pull the tank to see the fuel pump, but perhaps there is another clever way to see it, like some sort of fiber-optic camera perhaps? I have time to think hard on this issue. I'm not too worried, the car will be back on the road again before long.

Thanks.

I may need to buy some pins (I forget what they are called) so I can do voltage measurements under load (not just open circuit), but I think continuity is a better way.

 

Verify your meter is working properly by testing the voltage of the battery. It should read around 12.5 volts.

When you tested 7 volts, what wire were you testing (and where) with the red volt meter lead? What ground were you using with the black meter lead?

It also looks like your wagon was wired for a trailer hitch by some of the pictures. That wire harness that is completely cut on the passenger side may be a result of wiring the tail lights. I can't see another end of the wire harness where it feeds to back in your pictures. Do your rear lights, like brake lights, turn signals, etc work?

 

Here is a video where he talks about removing the innards of the main relay.

Not suggesting you do any soldering, but you can take a look at the solder joints for a quick inspection.

 

I installed the trailer hitch and wiring myself, there is damage (minor insulation damage) only to one wire on that harness but the harnesses leading up to it are almost all bitten through - both opens and shorts. I may have used car-body ground not the wire ground when I got the 7 volts so I'll go out and check that as I plan to resume car troubleshooting this afternoon. None of the rear lights, brake lights, etc.. work anymore - perhaps one or two of the 8 or so filaments light, I can't remember. The lights gradually disappeared in the last 4 days as the wires pulled completely apart while I pulled the carpets up.

Today I will do a little bit of wire-checking but I need to pull the seats of the car, I need to do that to make it easier to lie on the floor. I am a skinny, 6', 183 pounder but my chest and shoulders are enormous. Yesterday, I slammed my knee trying to stop the Honda from hitting a van out in the street because of my size (not complaining, just making an excuse for taking the seats out). I need to pull all carpeting, as each section has mouse-holes in it.

It was fun pulling this one brown field mouse out - his body was warm as toast and his fur was like silk. I have nothing against a rodent - there is nothing at all harmful about them unless they have fleas and until they get into house/car wiring. So now he lives outside with his buddies.

I'll post the results of my voltage/PGM relay checks, particularly if it's interesting.

"That wire harness that is completely cut on the passenger side may be a result of wiring the tail lights."

The wire harness cut on the passenger side would not have been cut as my car comes stock from the factory with a little stub for me to simply go to a hardware store and add a trailer wire adapter, unless you mean at the factory. To set up my trailer, I just had to buy a small trailer kit at a hardware store plug into the factory wiring adapter - it did not take any cutting of wires. There are entire wire harnesses completely bitten through all over the car at this point so I need to do the lights as I do the fuel pump or I will wind up unable to signal a turn or have brake-lights and potentially wind up shunting to ground too much to have my fuel pump work. So I need to start fixing all of the wiring - in some cases by removing or removing the fuses to ensure open circuits. But it's better to remove the bad wires as removing a fuse doesn't guarantee there are no shorts down the line from the fuse.

"Not suggesting you do any soldering, but you can take a look at the solder joints for a quick inspection."

I can look at those joints, and the circuit board traces and if necessary, fix them directly or with jumpers. Not a hard
job.