BRAKE FADE
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BRAKE FADE - 3/23/2008 5:08:45 PM
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steviebix
Posts: 192
Joined: 3/18/2007
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the onlky brake mod i have is Hawk HP+ carbon pads. there the best they make, but theyre on stock rotors. canyon running, my brakes heat up and fade like a biatch. what are the best ways to eliminate brake fade for canyon running without completely replacing the calipers and everything? slotted rotors? lines and hi temp fluid? what?
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98' CG5 4dr 4cyl AT
Normal tune schpiel; rims, susp, CF, system, JDM goodies...
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RE: BRAKE FADE - 3/23/2008 5:32:21 PM
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finch13
Posts: 4278
Joined: 6/7/2007
From: St. Paul, MN
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Bigger slotted/drilled rotors. Why are you canyon running in an Accord?
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RE: BRAKE FADE - 3/23/2008 6:23:45 PM
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JohnL
Posts: 199
Joined: 3/12/2007
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: steviebix the onlky brake mod i have is Hawk HP+ carbon pads. there the best they make, but theyre on stock rotors. canyon running, my brakes heat up and fade like a biatch. what are the best ways to eliminate brake fade for canyon running without completely replacing the calipers and everything? slotted rotors? lines and hi temp fluid? what?
Even the best 'performance' street pads on stock sized rotors are going to struggle if you really cane them hard. The easiest fix would be full on racing pads, but since these don't work well at all when colder it may well be somewhat dangerous to use such pads on the street.
When pads 'fade' they do so because they start giving off gasses that cannot escape quickly enough from between the rotor and the pad faces, so when they get too hot the pads start riding on a film of very high pressure gas and thus lose friction, often substantially and abruptly (pedal remains firm but car won't slow down!!!!).
Fitting stock size slotted rotors won't cause the brakes to run cooler, but will assist in venting the gas from overheated pads from between the pads and rotor, so helping to maintain friction once the pads do overheat. Slotted rotors effectively extend the upper range of temp at which a given pad will work, but the slots can only vent so much pad gas...
Braided lines will have zero affect on any aspect of actual braking performance, all they do is lessen the degree to which the flexible lines expand when pressurised, thus decreasing pedal motion (i.e gives a firmer pedal).
Hi-temp brake fluid may help, but only if the fluid is getting so hot that it's boiling and the pedal then gets soft or goes to the floor, resulting in little or no brakes. If your pedal remains firm when your brakes fade then the problem is pad fade, not overheated fluid.
If you must retain the stock rotors then you might want to duct some cooling air to the centre of the rotors (from where it can pass to the outer edge of the rotor through the cooling vanes), though I doubt it will make a big difference (every little bit helps though!).
The thing that will make the single greatest difference would be fitting larger front rotors. The larger rotor has substantially more area from which to dissipate heat, so will run cooler so the pads will run cooler. The stock rear rotors are probably adequate insofar as overheating the pads is concerned, since by far the greatest amount of braking is generated at the front brakes (if not then you may be able to fit internally vented rear rotors).
With larger front rotors you should be able to avoid using excessively hard pads, so you'll have reasonable cold braking affect, but also cause the brakes to run cooler to decrerase the tendency for gassing up the pads. It would be easy to find a larger rotor with slots, which would help if you did overheat the pads. It might be possible to use the stock calipers with a larger rotor (in which case an adaptor will be needed to attach the caliper further from the hub centre), but then you might need entirely different calipers(?).
Larger front rotors will increase front braking effect thus altering the front / rear brake bias, which would need to be addressed by some means. This could include; using front calipers with a smaller piston size (would also increase pedal firmness), rear calipers with larger pistons (would decrease pedal firmness), changing the proportioning valve, fitting larger rear rotors as well. Whatever, brake bias will most probably be an issue that needs to dialled in by some means.
Of course the cheapest option of all is to not drive so fast...
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RE: BRAKE FADE - 3/24/2008 1:10:38 AM
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steviebix
Posts: 192
Joined: 3/18/2007
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i LOVE your FAT posts johnL. they help. alot. and finch13, i canyon run my accord because its fun, my cars somewhat set up for it, and i can beat most kids with "suitable" canyon cars. understand now?
_____________________________
98' CG5 4dr 4cyl AT
Normal tune schpiel; rims, susp, CF, system, JDM goodies...
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RE: BRAKE FADE - 3/24/2008 10:21:30 AM
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finch13
Posts: 4278
Joined: 6/7/2007
From: St. Paul, MN
Status: offline
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Oh I totally understood, I just wouldn't want to be driving downhill on curvy roads if I didn't have the brakes for it. Would kind of make me uneasy...
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