RE: Engine won't turn over

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RE: Engine won't turn over

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RE: Engine won't turn over - 7/17/2006 9:15:08 PM

sbclemens

Posts: 40
Joined: 6/25/2006
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Removed all cables and cleaned them with a degreaser, scrapped off surface oxide and reinstalled.
Results: No change
Measured resistance from negative terminal to chassis body: 0.25 ohms
Measured resistance from negative terminal to ground connection on valve cover: 0.27 ohms
Measured resistance from negative terminal to starter body: 0.25 ohms

When I remote start the starter outside of the car (using the car's battery) it engages
When I remote start the starter installed in the car, just the click.

(in reply to sir_nasty)

Post #: 16

RE: Engine won't turn over - 7/17/2006 11:51:29 PM

JimBlake

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Joined: 5/31/2006
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Don't measure resistances; those are down in the noise level for multimeters that us normal mortals can afford. Measure voltage drops while trying to activate the starter.

The starter can take 100 amps, so 0.25 ohms would drop 25 volts. Not reasonable, so it's probably not an accurate measurement.

(in reply to sbclemens)

Post #: 17

RE: Engine won't turn over - 7/18/2006 12:42:23 AM

deserthonda

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Joined: 12/3/2005
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so if you remote start it giving power to solenoid from battery , starter will work ok,,

but if you try with the key it just clicks,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,IF so,, the starter is not the problem

I am beginning to wonder you there is a voltage drop across the AT gera positon switch ( neutral position switch.........try something.. on the left side of the console that's where the switch is located,, there is a brown plug with 2 wires going to it,, both wires are black/white.. disaconnect the plug, with a volt meter chk for battery voltage when key is on start position , with plug disconnected you should have voltage on only 1 wire...if not,, you are losing power source at ignition switch,, connectors, underdash fuse box .. ........if you got battery voltage , reconnect the plug and try the same test on the other wire, car in park or neutral,, key in the start position , if you got the same voltage then switch is ok ..if not,, you got a bad switch ,,,, to confirm it,, unplug the connector, jump the 2 wires together ,, if it cranks you found your problem.......

try and post results..

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(in reply to sbclemens)

Post #: 18

RE: Engine won't turn over - 7/18/2006 10:07:11 AM

sbclemens

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Joined: 6/25/2006
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I'm using a Fluke 189 that I use at work. It's accurate down to the hundreth of a ohm. In fact, due to a new part we're making, I need to find one that measures to the millionth of a ohm. So much for feeding the kids this month. Anyway, I was checking the ground circuit for continuity. The resistance measurements were to show that every thing was tight. Now the idea of measuring the voltage of the ground system under load and no load conditions is something I'll try when I get home tonight. If there is a voltage drop under load of the ground circuit, it might mean I've got something shorting out.

(in reply to JimBlake)

Post #: 19

RE: Engine won't turn over - 7/19/2006 11:37:40 PM

sbclemens

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Joined: 6/25/2006
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I'm having a hard time finding the brown plug with two wires. I have the shift lock solenoid, the ignition switch, and integrated control unit (ICU) exposed. The schematic shows a green and a yellow wire going to the shift lock solenoid; I a yellow/black and a yellow with silver bands wire going to this solenoid, so I don't know how much I can depend on the wire schematics I'm using. Since I've got the ignition switch exposed, I'll go ahead and test it. Is my shift lock switch incorporated into the ICU? I see a yellow/black and a yellow with the silver band running into it, or am I not looking in the right place for the shift lock switch?

< Message edited by sbclemens -- 7/19/2006 11:48:04 PM >

(in reply to deserthonda)

Post #: 20

RE: Engine won't turn over - 7/20/2006 3:10:21 AM

lightshow

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Joined: 1/6/2006
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let me get this straight, the starter wont turn the motor over with the remote or the actual ignition right?

(in reply to sbclemens)

Post #: 21

RE: Engine won't turn over - 7/20/2006 3:13:34 AM

lightshow

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how many times did you spin that crank pulley? where in mesa do you live?

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Post #: 22

RE: Engine won't turn over - 7/20/2006 9:33:00 AM

sbclemens

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The remote will not turn the starter with the starter installed, but will turn the starter when the starter is removed. I turned the engine about one quarter of a revolution. I'm located about a half mile north of Reed Park.

< Message edited by sbclemens -- 7/20/2006 9:34:13 AM >

(in reply to lightshow)

Post #: 23

RE: Engine won't turn over - 7/20/2006 10:19:28 AM

deserthonda

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it is located on the left side of frt console ( center console) on the bottom of the gear select

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Post #: 24

RE: Engine won't turn over - 7/20/2006 11:53:32 PM

sbclemens

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I haven't had a chance to check the shift lock system. But I did check continuity at the ignition switch. Here's what I got
Key @ 0: no continuity
Key @ I: less than 1 ohm between ACC (White/Black wire) and BAT (White wire)
Key @ II: less than 1 ohm between ACC and IGN2 (Yellow wire)
Key @ III: open circuit between BAT and ST (Black/White wire). I'm going to redo this test when its daylight so I can make sure I'm getting a good connection.

Question: If I jump the BAT and ST wires, should the starter turn?

(in reply to deserthonda)

Post #: 25

RE: Engine won't turn over - 7/21/2006 1:55:09 AM

lightshow

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i think you should pull all the plugs and spin the motor 2 full turns counterclockwise before you mess with the starter anymore. if it sticks anywhere dont turn it anymore.

(in reply to sbclemens)

Post #: 26

RE: Engine won't turn over - 7/21/2006 6:51:44 PM

JimBlake

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sbclemens

Question: If I jump the BAT and ST wires, should the starter turn?

Yes. The starter should also run if you supply battery voltage to the small signal wire at the starter.

So... If you jumper the BAT & ST wires, and it doesn't run, then you can look for a break in the ST wire between the switch & the starter.

But since you get an open circuit when you checked it, that pretty much says it's a bad ignition switch. (I think you can get the electrical part of the switch without buying the lock cylinder.)

(in reply to sbclemens)

Post #: 27

RE: Engine won't turn over - 7/22/2006 11:16:29 PM

sbclemens

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Joined: 6/25/2006
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OK, things I accomplished:
1) Checked the ST wire from the ignition switch through the fuse box, through the gear select switch, and to the starter. Good continuity throughout the circuit.
2) Checked the BAT wire from the ignition switch through the fuse box and to the battery. Good continuity through the circuit.
3) Pulled the main relay, removed the old solder and re-solder.
4) Removed the aftermarket security system (a simple splice in the ST wire with a fuse and a removable card that makes/breaks contact). After removing the security system, when I turn the key to start, now I get a click from the starter, but starter still won't spin.
5) Measured the voltage at the starter with the key in the "start" position. 12 Volts, no drops.
6) As someone suggested, I remove the spark plugs and spun the engine three (or so) times. So it definately isn't seized. Although the number two plug was covered in oil when I removed it.

So, in the morning, I'm going to pull the starter for the fourth time and take it to a different parts shop and have them test it. Does anyone have any other suggestions?

(in reply to JimBlake)

Post #: 28

RE: Engine won't turn over - 7/22/2006 11:20:54 PM

deserthonda

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if you got good voltage at starter wire and at solenoid wire and it clicks ,, sounds to me like you got a bad starter........
I want you to try something,, have someone try to start the car,, when it clicks get a big metal bar, big screwdriver and bang on the starter a few times ,, if it spins you found your problem ( bad starter) ..
also if it is a bad starter,, replace it with a Honda starter do not mess around with non factory starter

_____________________________

No Year No Model in Your signature
No Help from me

Take a look in the DIY section before asking for help

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(in reply to sbclemens)

Post #: 29

RE: Engine won't turn over - 7/22/2006 11:31:40 PM

sbclemens

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Joined: 6/25/2006
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I'll try that. Does the oil on the number two plug mean I've got bad rings?

(in reply to deserthonda)

Post #: 30