RE: Why Am I Hard Starting?
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RE: Why Am I Hard Starting? - 8/21/2006 1:56:04 PM
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JohnnyWadd
Posts: 42
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Don't want to sound like a jerk, but can you guys discuss the coolant problem in your own thread instead of hi-jacking mine? I'd appreciate it.
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RE: Why Am I Hard Starting? - 8/21/2006 2:07:25 PM
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JohnnyWadd
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Okay, first off, even though it was a major pain in the ass, I finally got the video taken care of and uploaded to a server. Here's the link:
http://s108.photobucket.com/albums/n21/jhieb2/?action=view¤t=FinalVideo.flv
I need to give a little FYI about the video, though. First off, the amount of hard-starting that you're hearing is relatively minor. At times, it's been much harder than that. Sometimes I have to flutter the gas pedal to get it to fire. But, it doesn't ever NOT fire. It'll always start, just gotta be more persistant at some times than others. Also, the temperature that day was very mild. I've got a SLIGHT reason to believe that the problem is worsened when it's really hot outside. Can't really confirm this, yet. Just keep in mind that usually, the starts are a little harder. Especially the ones at 30 and 60 minutes. They weren't near as hard on the film as they usually are.
I had someone ask me about the Sea Foam. I tried the Sea Foam when the problem started showing up. I'd been planning on doing it anyway, but when it began the hard-start problem, I figured that then was as good a time as any. The Sea Foam/fuel mixture has all run out, though. I've only put another half-tank in since then, though. Oh, and another guy asked if the check engine light is on. That's a no.
Let me know what you guys think. I hope the video helps. At least it kinda shows how hard the starts are. It does show how it runs terribly bad for a while only to smooth out and run like a champ.
If you've got any ideas for me, I welcome them.
Thanks again.
Jon
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RE: Why Am I Hard Starting? - 8/22/2006 2:11:27 PM
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JohnnyWadd
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Okay, it was suggested to me that I try starting the car with the throttle wide open to see if that minimized the problem. So, I decided to try it on for size. For the last 24 hours or so, everytime I've started the car, I've turned the key on, pumped the accelerator once, then pressed it to the floor. At that point, I start the car. It DEFINITELY starts quicker like that. It doesn't necessarily pop right off immediately every time (though often times it does just that), but it does start within a couple of seconds instead of the ten or fifteen that it takes sometimes without messing with the throttle. Also, when I start it like that, it still runs rough after starting. However, since I've got the throttle pegged, it revs high immediately after starting and seems to smooth out much quicker than when I start it without using the throttle. What do you guys make of that?
Also, I'm replacing the fuel filter today. I'll let you know if that helps matters any. Oh... FYI: I'm not just throwing parts at the car trying to solve the problem. The only things that I'm doing to the car right now are routine maintenance things that I'd planned on doing over the next few weeks anyway. I WILL NOT buy new fuel injectors/pressure regulator/whatever else until I know what the problem is. Playing the guessing game and throwing parts at a car problem can get real expensive real fast.
Oh, and one more thing: the fuel pressure test might take a while. I don't have access to a guage. Can't do the test until I find one. If you know anyone in Lincoln, NE that has a fuel pressure tester, feel free to send 'em my way!!!
Let me know what you think on that 'open throttle' thing.
Thanks for reading.
Jon
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RE: Why Am I Hard Starting? - 8/27/2006 10:42:39 AM
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JohnnyWadd
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Uh-oh... my cooling problem is back. Well, maybe not back. Maybe just another cooling problem. I'm going to post it in here, because I'm wondering if my two problems are related. I'm hoping to get a little feedback as to whether anybody thinks that there is anything that could cause both of these problems.
Let me give a little bit of background for those of you not in the know. I spent about three weeks diagnosing a cooling system problem. I was losing coolant, and I couldn't figure out where. The problem wouldn't really show itself when I drove around town. The problem ended up being a hole in the radiator. I replaced that, and for about two months, all was well. Hell, I even drove the car from San Diego to Lincoln, NE and never had a single problem.
So, I thought I had the problem whipped and I put that topic to bed. Then, the other day, I was cruising down the freeway, and it started to run hot. Couldn't figure that out. Pulled over and had to fill it up with coolant. I was in the midst of a 200 mile trip, and over the course of that time, I had to fill it up three more times. This was in mid-afternoon. Then, in the evening, I had to make the trip back, and I didn't have to stop and fill up at all. It was low when I got back, but it didn't overheat. Couldn't figure that one out.
Now I'm back in Lincoln, and whenever I drive around, I lose some fluid. Problem is, I can't find the leak. I've even put a pressure tester on the car and it'll hold pressure (well, for a little while at least - it slowly drops after you pressurize it). Can't or see a leak when it's pressurized. Thought maybe the cap was shot, so I replaced that. It didn't fix the problem. Not sure what's causing this.
I'm concerned that the two problems might be related. I've got my theory, but I don't want to post that yet. I want people to give me their opinions instead of just agreeing with mine. If you can give me some feedback as to what kind of problem might result in BOTH a hard-start and a loss of coolant, let me know.
Oh, by the way, still not seeing any smoke (or steam) out of the tailpipe. Doesn't mean it's not there, though, right?
Thanks
Jon
P.S. Replacing the fuel filter didn't accomplish a thing.
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RE: Why Am I Hard Starting? - 8/27/2006 2:08:23 PM
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fireballer44
Posts: 203
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From: North Little Rock, AR
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Sorry to have nosed my cooling problem in here.....if I ever get around to working on it I will make another thread.
I hate to even mention this, but I would think a blown head gasket could cause it to run hot as well as not start easily. Have you checked your oil for water deposits and your spark plugs??
Just a suggestion...
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RE: Why Am I Hard Starting? - 9/7/2006 2:19:16 PM
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JohnnyWadd
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Hey, everybody. Sorry I've been out of the loop. Been a busy boy over the past two weeks, so I haven't been able to turn any wrenches on the ailing car. I'll have to remedy that over the next few days. I'm going to check the fuel system. I have a couple of questions for you.
Question 1: Can anybody give me insight into hooking up a fuel pressure guage to my car? I'm used to there just being a schrader valve that the guage hooks into. Can't seem to find one on my car. Do I have to buy a special fitting? If so, where can I get one?
Question 2: I want to test the "leaky injector" theory. What I'll probably do is pull the fuel rail off, re-attach the electrical connectors with the injectors out of the cylinders, and pressurize the system. Any advice on the best way to do this? If I turn the key on, will the fuel system automatically pressurize? If so, I should see any leaks at that time, right? I don't have to turn it over, do I?
Question 3: How in the heck do you check a fuel pressure regulator? I have no clue there, other than to disconnect the vacuum line to see if fuel leaks out, which would indicate a leaky diaphragm.
Okay, that's all I've got for now. Drop me a line and let me know what you guys think. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Jon
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RE: Why Am I Hard Starting? - 9/7/2006 11:42:33 PM
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JimBlake
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1) Usually Honda has a funny extra small bolt on top of the banjo fitting at the fuel filter. That's where the gauge fits. Probably need some kind of adapter.
2) When you turn the key 'ON' the fuel pump will run for about a second & then stop. That may or may not be long enough to find a leak, depending whether it's a really small leak. I don't remember whether the injectors are clipped into the rail. Be careful the fuel pressure doesn't pop the injectors out during the test.
3) Like you said, checking for fuel in the vacuum line will only tell you if the diaphragm is ruptured. The TRUE test is to measure fuel pressure under different operating conditions & check whether it's in spec.
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RE: Why Am I Hard Starting? - 9/9/2006 2:25:04 AM
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Slusher
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Sorry, but gotta agree with fireballer. Headgaskets are odd things when they go. I had a Datsun 280ZX that had a bad head gasket, car ran fine, no white smoke out the pipe. The only thing that gave it away was the overflow tank would boil over and coolant would spill out and then next time I went to start it it would say low coolant. Someone also said not to use seafoam it your car exceeds 150k miles due to it breaking down what is holding your gaskets together, not sure of your mileage though. Buy/borrower a pressure tester and check it out before you go over. I'm not sure what the cylinder pressure tester gauges runs for price but I wouldn't think that it would be too much.
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RE: Why Am I Hard Starting? - 9/25/2006 1:24:15 AM
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malinowskiskiski
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Johnny, I happen to have the exact same problem as you do. If I was to post a video of my car starting, it would be almost identical.. the only difference I can tell is that my car is not responsive to the outside temperature (or atleast I haven't had a big enough change of temp to judge this on). In other words, the problem is the same in cooler weather and warmer weather.
The problem has gradually grown worse and worse, and last night I tried to start the car to no avail.. It wouldn't even crank at all, no sounds (except one, ill get to it in a sec). The car wouldn't start for about 1-2 minutes and then it did, so I thought nothing of it really. It happened again today, where the car just doesn't really do anything when I try to crank. The car wouldn't start for about 30 mins.
I had a friend who is much older and knows cars a LOT more than me come help me out. He figured it may have been the starter because of the way I described the problem, and when I tried to start he noticed the starter was clicking and sounding like it wasn't doing its job. After the 30 minutes the car started up the usual way with its hesitation to start. The strange thing is that the starter looks brand spankin new (I just bought the car), so theres a couple of questions about the whole deal with that.
Anyways, I have a friend of a friend whos a mechanic and offered to take a look so thats what I will probably be doing, but my *guess* would be replacing the starter and the starter solenoid. I'll post an update in a few days.
Oh and I really doubt the problem has to do with the battery.
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RE: Why Am I Hard Starting? - 10/23/2006 1:46:27 PM
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JohnnyWadd
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Okay, guys... sorry that I haven't posted anything in a while. It's just that the hard start seems to have fixed itself. Well, kind of. I'm not having any problems with starting, but I think that's because summer is gone. I don't know what it is, but I'm now convinced that the problem is only present when it's hot out. I'm having no troubles starting right now, but about two weeks ago, it got up to 90 and I had a little bit of trouble that day. But, right now and ever since then, nothing. So, I guess I won't be writing anything until March or April, huh?!
I do have a cooling system question, though. Remember how I said that my cooling problem was back? Well, for the longest time, I couldn't find the leak. I pressurized the system, and nothing. Every once in a while, I'd see the temperature guage creep up and I'd have to put in more coolant. But, I drive it on the highways all the time, and it's a once-in-a-blue-moon type of deal. For the most part, nothing. Anyway, on Thursday, I decided to flush the cooling system. I wanted to get more coolant in before winter came. Well, I must've done something wrong, cuz on Friday, I was leaking coolant everywhere. Had to leave town for a wedding, so I couldn't inspect until today. I slid under the car and figured out where the coolant is coming from. There's a little hole on the back side of the motor right next to the timing cover. The coolant is seeping out of there. Is that a weep hole for the water pump? I'm guessing that it is and that I must've pissed off my water pump when I flushed the system. Anybody know anything about that task? Is it as big of a bitch as it appears. Gotta tear into that whole side of the motor to change it, timing belt and all, don't I?
All right, if you guys can give me some insight into my cooling woes, I'd greatly appreciate it. In the mean time, thanks for everything.
Jon
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RE: Why Am I Hard Starting? - 10/23/2006 7:30:35 PM
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JimBlake
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You're exactly right; that's a weep hole for the waterpump. The pump has 2 bearings, both sealed, & the weep hole is in-between. When it leaks thru the first seal, the weep hole lets it drain out without getting all over the timing belt.
Get your repair manual & read all about replacing the timing belt. Once the timing & balancer belts are off, the waterpump is right there. BTW, it would be kinda silly to put the old timing belts back on after doing all that work.
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'03 Accord & '07 Civic
'01 Saab 9³ & '05 9²x
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RE: Why Am I Hard Starting? - 10/23/2006 7:32:45 PM
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YeuEmMaiMai
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TW is the coolant temp sensor, this may cause hard stating but there are other things that will cause hard starting as well TPS sensor and Idle Control Valve. Also if the trottle body is not closed or in the wrong position, this will also cause the car to be hard starting.
How is fuel pressure?
is the Air filter clean?
plugs fouled?
internal coolant leak?
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RE: Why Am I Hard Starting? - 10/24/2006 8:53:18 PM
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JohnnyWadd
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Okay, fellas... I'm about to embark on my first Honda water pump / timing belt change. I think I'm going to need a little help here. I've done the same type of job on Mitsubishi engines, and it doesn't look all that different. But, I've run across a few questions while perusing my manual, and I was wondering if you could lend me some insight.
The job itself seems relatively cut and dry. Tedious... but cut and dry no less. My major question is about the specialty Honda tools that my manual recommends. I only saw two while I was reading. One is the huge hex tool that holds the crankshaft pulley in place while you loosen the pulley bolt. Honda calls it the "Pulley Holder Attachment". The other is the tool that holds the balance shaft in place while you change the belt. This one is called the "Balance Shaft Lock Pin".
When I did the job on my Mitsubishi, I remember that specialty tools were recommended for both on that car as well. However, I remember that I was able to get by without the specialty tools on both accounts. For the balance shaft, if memory serves me correct, I think I just used a small philips screw driver. Can this be done on the Honda?
The crank pulley bolt was a little trickier. I used a rather unconventional method to break loose the one on my Mitsubishi. I wedged a breaker bar against the floor and put the socket on the pulley bolt. Then, I tapped the starter and let the engine break the bolt loose. Maybe not the smartest thing to do, but it worked. I wonder if I can do that on this one. I know the engine turns counter-clockwise. That means that the crank bolt would have to have reverse threads for this to work. Anybody know if that's the case?
So, I guess I'm wondering if you guys can give me a little insight on these. Right now, I do not have access to an air ratchet (which would make it much easier to bust the crank bolt loose). I'm going to have to use physics and mechanics to get it done. Any advice on the best way to go about it? Oh, and maybe include a little insight on the cam shaft bolt as well. That one might be a bitch too. Maybe not, though. I think if I put a breaker bar on the crank bolt, I think I can loosen the cam bolt, no problem.
All right... I thank you in advance for your help, and sorry I got so long-winded. Just not really wanting to buy a bunch of specialty tools from Honda that I'll only use once. I figure that you guys will know whether or not I need them.
Thanks for the help.
Jon
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RE: Why Am I Hard Starting? - 10/25/2006 1:06:29 AM
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JimBlake
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnnyWadd
For the balance shaft, if memory serves me correct, I think I just used a small philips screw driver. Can this be done on the Honda?
I think so. Or maybe an allen wrench, or some kind of drift pin. Also, assuming it's timed correctly now, you can mark the sprocket with a sharpie marker so you can get it back where it belongs with the new belt.
quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnnyWadd
The crank pulley bolt was a little trickier. I used a rather unconventional method to break loose the one on my Mitsubishi. I wedged a breaker bar against the floor and put the socket on the pulley bolt. Then, I tapped the starter and let the engine break the bolt loose. Maybe not the smartest thing to do, but it worked. I wonder if I can do that on this one. I know the engine turns counter-clockwise. That means that the crank bolt would have to have reverse threads for this to work. Anybody know if that's the case?
NO! That bolt has right-hand threads, so if you use the starter you'll be TIGHTENING it. But it's really on there tight. Many people use an air-impact wrench, but also some people find it's not enough. IMHO that's more about the capacity of their wrenches & compressors.
There's a place to buy a crank holding tool for not outrageous $$$, but I don't remember where.
I've taken mine to a local shop & had them break it loose. Then tighten it up just good enough to drive 1/2 mile back home. One time they didn't even let me pay them. Obviously that's not a good idea if you live 20 miles away...
Search around for some other creative ways. One guy welded a pipe onto a big nut (55mm hex) to make his tool. Some people take off the starter & use a crowbar to hold the flywheel. Just be careful that it doesn't slip & chip a tooth.
quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnnyWadd
Oh, and maybe include a little insight on the cam shaft bolt as well. That one might be a bitch too. Maybe not, though. I think if I put a breaker bar on the crank bolt, I think I can loosen the cam bolt, no problem.
You don't need to remove the sprocket from the camshaft. Loosen the tensioner & work the belt off.
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'03 Accord & '07 Civic
'01 Saab 9³ & '05 9²x
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RE: Why Am I Hard Starting? - 10/31/2006 1:44:25 PM
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JohnnyWadd
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Okay, everyone... job complete!! First off, I wanted to thank everyone for all of their input. I ended up just taking the car to a shop and they charged me fifteen bucks to pop the crank bolt loose. Once I got back home, the whole job went much smoother than I'd anticipated. I've never done anything like this on a Honda. I believe in my abilities, so I was fairly confident going in. It was nice when I turned her over and she popped off right away. Great sense of accomplishment in the end.
I've got one question, though. I already know what most of you are going to say, but I'm going to ask it anyway. Tightening the crank bolt was just as interesting as loosening it. See, I still don't have the means and extremes to lock the engine in place. So, when I tried to torque it down, the engine tried to turn every time. In the manual, it recommended that I not use any sort of impact wrench. Well, I didn't really know what to do. My buddy manages a parts store and they've got an electric impact there. It's not heavy duty by any stretch of the imagination. So, I had him bring it over and I used that to tighten the bolt. I'm 100% positive that it didn't over-torque it or anything. Everything seems to be working fine. Do you guys think I'll be okay as it is, or do I really need to get off of my ass and find out whether the bolt is tight enough? Can't believe I'm even asking this question. Guess I'm just being cheap, lazy, or both!!
Okay, this thread will probably lie dormant for a while. Like I said, the hard-starting is on hiatus, so I have to wait until that problem rears it's ugly head before starting in again on that problem. Until then, wish me luck with all things car related!!
Thanks again for all of your help.
Jon
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