RE: " Death By Hanging**

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RE: " Death By Hanging** - 11/7/2006 6:57:02 AM    malcqv Posts: 162 Joined: 3/9/2006 Status: offline quote: ORIGINAL: YeuEmMaiMai Europeans as a whole do not have the stomach to stand up to the terrorists.....it's that simple Think the Irish may have a slight disagreement with you there (in reply to YeuEmMaiMai) Post #: 16

RE: " Death By Hanging** - 11/7/2006 1:12:36 PM    Tony1M   Posts: 583 Joined: 12/25/2005 Status: offline Neither Iraq nor Afghanistan surrendered - that's an all-important difference from WWII outcomes – especially when one considers the already-existing internal factions in the former. In both Germany and Japan, after those surrenders, the armies dropped their weapons and civilians aided their occupiers in re-establishing governments, infrastructure and normal life in general. The populations knew and accepted that they had been defeated. Not so in the present cases. Quite surprisingly, although many members of the Japanese military went on trial for war crimes, the Emperor was allowed to remain in power, even though he had been responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people. Truman understood that the political reality of the situation in Japan supported that decision at that time, and history certainly has supported it in hindsight. After the US invasion of Iraq there was a period of relative calm and relief on all sides until it became apparent to Iraqi's that the US intended to do precisely what it did. Even as it became obvious that there were no WMD's, there was still no indication that the US would be leaving of its own volition. From that point onward to today, contrary to W's rosy portrayal, the situation in Iraq has been steadily deteriorating. Once the US had determined that there were no WMD's, even if forces had been withdrawn at that point, and even if Hussein had crawled out of his hole and once again assumed command, I believe that it’s quite possible that not only would this NOT have been worse than the situation that exists at the present time, it may have been one of the best (certainly the least costly for the US) outcomes. In the unlikely event that he would have survived the ensuing internal political turmoil in his weakened position, Hussein would certainly, at least to the US, have been completely emasculated. If it so desired, the US could even have resumed the casual bombing of the country at will, although with Hussein no longer having planes to intrude into so-called “no fly zones”, even this probably would have been unnecessary. Hussein was, if nothing else, a secular leader who for many years "reined in" any radical Islamists. In this weakened state, however, this may not have continued to be possible internally, and Iran may have taken advantage of that situation, but I believe this would have been unlikely considering that this may have precipitated a US invasion – this time, as in the first Gulf War, with the full support of the UN. In this one respect Clinton was right – prior to the invasion Hussein was “in a box” and there was no need for an invasion to keep him there. Certainly once the issue of potential WMD’s had been definitively resolved after the invasion, with his remaining military forces completely destroyed, he could have been even more easily kept there. In that state, he may have even been open to US overtures of cooperation. Maybe there is a lesson to be learned from the Japanese example. Considering the positive outcome of not prosecuting the Japanese Emperor, maybe some mutually-acceptable arrangement could even now, as a gesture of good will, be made with Hussein – in secret, of course – in which Hussein would perhaps assume some minor role in the new government. But a little voice tells me that W, unlike his father, wants to see Hussein executed so badly that this would be impossible, even if it were in the best interest of both nations. The same voice tells me that WMD’s may not have been the real reason for the invasion and that this “Freedom and Democracy” ploy is just that. All of the above assumes the honest intentions of W from the beginning. But the evidence now being exposed which details the deliberate manipulation of data by the administration to support its contention of the existence of WMD’s in Iraq, along with the now-historic counter-productive behavior of the occupiers, as well as the plan to build 4 or 5 new billion-dollar bases - all point to one purpose for the invasion – a permanent US military presence in Iraq to support a puppet government which was legitimized by a UN acting under the false pretenses presented to it by the US. The question I have for the future is: will the US accept the request by a freely-elected, democratic, but anti-US government to leave Iraq immediately? I believe that the US puppet-masters will never allow that situation to arise. In an Iraq occupied and dominated by the US military, and subjugated by its puppet – a place where likely political outcomes are not allowed - Freedom and Democracy can not exist. Just as if it was a play with a script, by virtue of the fact that Iraq has a US-installed and controlled puppet government, Iraq is another Vietnam – but having as the reason for the war the threat of world-wide terrorism instead of world-wide communism. All of the players – politicians and citizens representing all sides - are dutifully “saying their lines”. It’ll be interesting to see how this re-make ends. One thing is for certain - the "war" continues to be very very expensive and, even so, the military situation is continuing to deteriorate. Combine these facts with the constant stream of anti-Iran/Syria propaganda, and it makes the US political mind-set much more amenable to a "final solution". _____________________________ Tony 1992 Accord LX, 4AT, 4 dr, no AC, no power anything (in reply to malcqv) Post #: 17

RE: " Death By Hanging** - 11/7/2006 1:55:56 PM    sir_nasty Posts: 6309 Joined: 2/23/2006 Status: offline that was a mouthfull *L* well put though... One of the things that was origonally stated towards the begininng of all of this is that the only way saddam was even able to "keep everything in check" was through tyrannical rule to avoid a civil uprising of the two sides and it has been said that because of that it is either going to take a massive amount of time or a full on civil war to "iron out" the differences.... A good way for most people to understand this is imagine if you were a christian and you were forced to follow a leader who was a devil worshiper, now once that devil worshiper was removed and a christian was put into place you'd be happy, however, the devil worshipers would now be super angry at you and turn on you.... so how do you get the two extremes to come together in such a deeply religous nation? _____________________________ 1981 Civic Station Wagon - ROhnda (Really Old Honda) 1981 Honda CB650 Motorcylce - WHEE What More can I say? 2000 Lexus RX 300 - Oooh baby my wife let me drive it once!! Quote: Life''''s great but it''''s not all beer and skittles (in reply to Tony1M) Post #: 18

RE: " Death By Hanging** - 11/7/2006 4:17:22 PM    ckebottle   Posts: 863 Joined: 9/22/2006 Status: offline Tony1M --- very well put!!! Kudos for you = ) (in reply to Tony1M) Post #: 19

RE: " Death By Hanging** - 11/8/2006 2:58:05 AM    malcqv Posts: 162 Joined: 3/9/2006 Status: offline Very interesting Tony1m. (in reply to ckebottle) Post #: 20

RE: " Death By Hanging** - 11/8/2006 3:06:55 AM    YeuEmMaiMai Posts: 1822 Joined: 5/28/2006 Status: offline I don't see the US staying in iraq They voted and we have already drawn up a plan to leave. If we leave now the terrorists win..... and then they start attacking here again... I have never considered owning a weapon in my life but now I am starting to seriously consider it...I will defend myself KILL THEM before they can kill me...... Pretty sad that most people forgot about the people that were hung from the bridge and burned, the videos of people getting their heads cut off, the countless number of iraqi people being kidnapped and killed daily by the insurgents....... What will you do when the come for you? Stand up and fight? or Lay down and let them kill you? You decide....... _____________________________ Jesus is Salvation White 2002 Acura CL type S. 68K and change Criminals thrive upon the intolerence of society''s understanding.....and political correctness (in reply to Tony1M) Post #: 21

RE: " Death By Hanging** - 11/9/2006 1:27:21 AM    marbro Posts: 1478 Joined: 1/16/2006 Status: offline First off, he shouldnt be hung, its called a public stoning and thats exactly what should have been done, and if hitler didnt kill himself thats what should have been done to him as well, and saying its inhumane is a load of crap, what religions have said an eye for an eye? after all someone commits mass murder and any form of death becomes inhumane? wow just wow regardless of what situation he was in when we attacked, if we didnt there were enough people willing to follow him that it would have fallen back into the old routine only problem is he would have been more vengeful and angry and people would have suffered, mindless people tend not to question things when they are doing it in the name of their god and people would have followed him in that belief just like they did before. Ultimately its pointless to do the if statements cause you cant prove it now, and on top of that i think its cute that tony1m is using the term puppet government to define things..... after all people who use that are often the same people who say the twin towers being brought down were a result of a planned attack by our own government, conspiracy theorys are cute ^_^ (in reply to YeuEmMaiMai) Post #: 22

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