RE: Illegal Immigration? Please Read
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RE: Illegal Immigration? Please Read - 3/11/2007 6:57:37 PM
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ckebottle
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I tend to agree with Trav. Yeah, they are coming here and should learn our language, but the reality is they are not and it would be in our benefit to probably have a very basic understanding of their language. Have you all watched the episode of "Hogan Knows Best" where they go shopping around Miami and are having trouble communicating due to the high population of spanish speakers? I thought that was funny.
I would also like to point out to those who say illegals don't pay taxes, that in fact they do. In states like California, where we have a sales tax, they pay taxes on products they buy. Also someone also stated earlier that illegals are buying houses. So wouldn't they also being paying property taxes as well? When it comes to federal, since they are working under the table, yeah they are not paying taxes. Let's just not forget they are paying taxes at the local and state level.
< Message edited by ckebottle -- 3/11/2007 6:59:56 PM >
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RE: Illegal Immigration? Please Read - 3/11/2007 7:24:15 PM
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19Accord97
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I meant, If I were moving to or visiting to another country I would have no expectation of them learning or knowing English for me. Instead, I would learn their language.
quote:
Plus if you have had any history knowledge...We pretty much stole the the southern states from about texas to southern california. Don't you think they want that back. Why do you think the native americans are so pissed, because we came here killed them then took their land. This is basically what is happening to us...don't you think karma is getting back to us?
So basically your saying our ancestors should never have left England to come here? If you say that about the Indians, and the Spanish well then the whole world is practically living on land that was never theirs in the first place. Everyone moved, and fought wars to gain land, so in saying that....then most everyone is technically living on land that is not technically theirs.But another thing is that our ancestors did what they did. We had no part in it, what they did is done. Simple as that.
I know what our ancestors did wasnt exactly fair or moral, but how did we have any part in that? We couldnt have changed that.
Also, if you think its okay that people come into this country illegally and break laws, then shouldnt it be ok for someone to murder someone else? Breaking a law is breaking a law. Laws are what our country is based upon, its how we survive.
They arent coming back because the land was theirs, they are coming back for America. I would much rather pay more for fruit and veggies than for their medical treatments and schooling. Thats ridiculous, they are stealing money from people of Medicare and from American citizens who pay for those programs. Why pay for people who shouldnt be here in the first place when we have true American citizens starving and even homeless? Besides, before this mass parade of illegals, there has always been someone to pick fruit, correct?
As for poor Mexico...come on. If you did some research you would discover it is possibly the most wimpy and hippocritical countries in the world. Heres Why:
-They complain about the U.S putting up a wall:
--Mexico has one of the most heavily armed borders in this hemisphere. They have military gaurding their southern border to keep the Guatamalans and many more out. Plus, they have tons of reports of killing and beating people. But yet it is totally in humane if we do it. Ridiculous....
-Mexico claims they are finacially unable to have a strong economy:
--Uh, maybe because Mexico doesnt tax the rich. Instead of bucking up, they choose the easy way out; let America deal with them and pay for their healthcare and education. They dont try to do anything about it. The people of Mexico should unite, protest, and try to create a government of their own to their liking.
-The Mexican president promotes crossing into the U.S illegally and has actually made pamphlets on how to survive in the desert...but remeber, they dont want any illegal immigrants in their country.
< Message edited by 19Accord97 -- 3/11/2007 7:38:23 PM >
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RE: Illegal Immigration? Please Read - 3/11/2007 7:59:26 PM
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Trav20
Posts: 340
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From: Middleofnowhere,Oklahoma
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I see where you are coming from but I don't agree with you when you say that coming here illegally is like murder. I don't have a problem with us moving here...I have a problem with us killing the native americans to gain ground. We should have lived with them instead of killing them. Living with us isn't killing us. I think if they really want to live here then so be it. We can't change the fact they are moving here. If you didn't already know that there are jobs that most of us wouldn't want to do but the people moving here take that job like it is the only job on the planet. I think it is stupid for us to say they are hypocritical...when you are buying something-you want the least expensive product and when you are selling something-you want the most money you can get out of it...all of us are hypocrites. The mexican government is really financially in the dumps...my dad used to do business with mexico with a company called ditch witch. He would travel there every 2 weeks, and he would tell us how bad it is there. Not all countries are like America.
Some people don't realize mexicans don't have it as good as us but we complain that they jump the border to live a better life. If we keep sending these people back we could possibly have another war on our hands...and we don't want another war...believe me. (how does that sound though-Mexican-American War II or MAWII)
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RE: Illegal Immigration? Please Read - 3/11/2007 8:22:49 PM
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WheelBrokerAng
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 19Accord97
quote:
ORIGINAL: Trav20
And as for the language changing...English should always be the primary language, but we are going to have to learn another language because of the diverse society we live in.
I completely disagree. Learning the language of people immigrating to our country does not make any sense. Look at it from this stand point. If I or you were to go to say Germany, would you expect people their to know English and have an expectation of them to conform to you? I would think not. If I were going to Germany I would use common sense and have either a book or take a class to learn German.
In my opinion, thinking that someone will conform to your language is ridiculous, not only that but it can be costly too with hiring interpretors and what not. Just my .02.
I agree with you on this language..when I went to Viet nam I took it upon my self to learn Vietnamese or I wouldn't be getting any...of what I wanted  so I learned it enough to get what I wanted  and what I needed ...
WheelBrokerAng 
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RE: Illegal Immigration? Please Read - 3/11/2007 8:48:53 PM
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poser_pilot6
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Trav20
If we keep sending these people back we could possibly have another war on our hands...and we don't want another war...believe me. (how does that sound though-Mexican-American War II or MAWII)
Are you scared of the Mexicans lol? The only country that could even hope to touch us (in conventional warfare, disregarding nukes) is China, and thats only because they have so damn many troops. I think we could run through Mexico in about a month, tops.
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RE: Illegal Immigration? Please Read - 3/11/2007 8:59:13 PM
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marbro
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Trav20
I see where you are coming from but I don't agree with you when you say that coming here illegally is like murder. I don't have a problem with us moving here...I have a problem with us killing the native americans to gain ground. We should have lived with them instead of killing them. Living with us isn't killing us. I think if they really want to live here then so be it. We can't change the fact they are moving here. If you didn't already know that there are jobs that most of us wouldn't want to do but the people moving here take that job like it is the only job on the planet. I think it is stupid for us to say they are hypocritical...when you are buying something-you want the least expensive product and when you are selling something-you want the most money you can get out of it...all of us are hypocrites. The mexican government is really financially in the dumps...my dad used to do business with mexico with a company called ditch witch. He would travel there every 2 weeks, and he would tell us how bad it is there. Not all countries are like America.
Some people don't realize mexicans don't have it as good as us but we complain that they jump the border to live a better life. If we keep sending these people back we could possibly have another war on our hands...and we don't want another war...believe me. (how does that sound though-Mexican-American War II or MAWII)
In reference to all of what you said, if you have to go somewhere illegally to have a better life, i think its rather counter productive to say they are doing whats right even if they are breaking a law of an entire country just to make their own lives better. But in the end, most of them jump the border so their family can have a better life, most of them send their money back to mexico to support their families. But im glad you ignore the fact that criminals form mexico have illegally entered america just as much as the non criminals of that country. And if a war is started because people from another country are breaking our laws I say bring it, because after innocent people are slaughtered just so they can have their way, americans will call for blood, and this time it wouldnt be 4000+ miles away from our country.
Was this country originally ours? no, but its wasnt mexico's either making the arguement that we took parts of it from them, but not arguing about who they took it from is kinda pointless, besides, a lot of them were from spain anyways.
And no of course not all country's are like america, thats why most of the world hates us, yet expects us to clean up after them. The rest of the world expects a lot from a country with the largest monetary debt in the world.
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RE: Illegal Immigration? Please Read - 3/12/2007 12:06:09 AM
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Trav20
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From: Middleofnowhere,Oklahoma
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I love being flamed...it is so fun!
Well im not afraid of mexicans I just dont want another war.
As for hypocritical things, yes, it is hypocritical of them to do that but it is also stupid to be a jerk to them when they are trying to live a better life. They can't control what their government does. It is hard(and somewhat racist) to pinpoint the hypocrite on the mexican race. If you were to stand on the border and call every mexican who crosses that border a hypocrite, be my guest.
See what I'm getting at, you are complaining about two different bodies but grouping it as one. The mexican government is hypocritical, yes I KNOW, but their people aren't. It's almost like it is here..."America goes to Iraq" but the people don't want to go(that explains the protesters in Washington D.C.
As for criminals from mexico, I said that earlier today...
quote:
I don't think we should kick them out if they are finding a job and trying to become legal citizens...It's the ones that come up here and starts selling drugs and getting into gangs are the ones we should kick out, but you can't really tell when they sneak across the border...The man who comes up here to sell drugs to local gangs should be launched from a circus cannon on the border and shoot him atleast 30 miles south.
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RE: Illegal Immigration? Please Read - 3/12/2007 2:45:00 AM
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ckebottle
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Just curious. People seem to be saying crminals get through, and i'm sure they do, but does anyone have a statistic of what percentage of illegal immigrants are criminals?
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RE: Illegal Immigration? Please Read - 3/12/2007 12:16:54 PM
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millpond
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ckebottle
Just curious. People seem to be saying crminals get through, and i'm sure they do, but does anyone have a statistic of what percentage of illegal immigrants are criminals?
Probably about the same pecentage of criminals that we have as American criminals. That may be a difficult number to come up with as well since there are criminals in the business world that never get caught.
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RE: Illegal Immigration? Please Read - 3/12/2007 6:21:47 PM
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marbro
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ckebottle
Just curious. People seem to be saying crminals get through, and i'm sure they do, but does anyone have a statistic of what percentage of illegal immigrants are criminals?
lol based on asking this question 100% cause they are breaking the law already ^_-
and Trav, the thing is, theres one huge way to get into america legally and it also involve becoming a citizen..... they can join the military..... if you have to define a better life by breaking laws then you cant really say you want to be apart of the society that helps you get that better life....... besides.... you break laws to have fun, not have a better life lol
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RE: Illegal Immigration? Please Read - 3/12/2007 6:48:32 PM
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ckebottle
Posts: 864
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quote:
ORIGINAL: marbro
quote:
ORIGINAL: ckebottle
Just curious. People seem to be saying crminals get through, and i'm sure they do, but does anyone have a statistic of what percentage of illegal immigrants are criminals?
lol based on asking this question 100% cause they are breaking the law already ^_-
Ehh. You know what I meant. How many in their home country (mexico) are criminals that come here illegally.
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RE: Illegal Immigration? Please Read - 3/12/2007 6:53:24 PM
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sir_nasty
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I'm going to address the military thing first: You are not granted citizenship just because you served in our military. I served in Iraq with one of my good friends who's Canadian. He did 8 years in the U.S. Army, served in Afganistan, Kosovo and Iraq and when he applied legally for a greencard he was denied.... Now for the 10 million dollar question. What is required to get a greencard to become a citizen of the US?
The funny thing about the criminal comment.... if you recall about 6 months to a year ago there was a big nationwide boycott of sorts where mexicans and illegal immigrants didn't go to work and took to the streets in protest.... what came out of it wasn't a diverse affect on business in the way you'd expect.... Crime dropped roughly 8% nationwide for that day.... I'm not pointing fingers but the facts say what they say....
And like desert said if I felt that by going to a different country I could improve the life of my family, legally or not, I'd do it... Also, he mentioned it and so did I... we've gotta stop paying for all the children of illegals and then giving them citizenship, I'm not saying deny them healthcare if they can't afford it (no one should be turned away when they are having a child for lack of funding...) but I am saying, deliver the kid and ship them home, if they come back, jail them... I just had a baby and I'm still getting bills for it... I'm up to almost $5000.00 for the birth of my son and if I had been an illegal immigrant I wouldn't have paid a dime AND my son would have dual citizenship.... Now consider this, I'd bet that most people on here make close to $20,000.00 / year (pre tax) (give or take a bit) on average.... my son is 25% of that YEARLY income BEFORE taxes...
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RE: Illegal Immigration? Please Read - 3/12/2007 7:24:17 PM
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19Accord97
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Here is a TRUE example of what illegal immigration dose. There are blatant facts that cannot be contested nor ignored. Coincidence it is the same time as this post!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17576996/?GT1=9145
Pa. city defends illegal immigrant law First federal trial tests local vs. federal control of immigrants The Associated PressUpdated: 5:49 p.m. CT March 12, 2007
function UpdateTimeStamp(pdt) { var n = document.getElementById("udtD"); if(pdt != '' && n && window.DateTime) { var dt = new DateTime(); pdt = dt.T2D(pdt); if(dt.GetTZ(pdt)) {n.innerHTML = dt.D2S(pdt,(('false'.toLowerCase()=='false')?false:true));} } } UpdateTimeStamp('633093365596100000');SCRANTON, Pa. - Leaders of a Pennsylvania town that cracked down on illegal immigrants went to court Monday to defend their controversial practices at the start of a trial to explore whether local governments may act on their own to curb illegal immigration.Officials in Hazleton, south of Scranton, passed the city’s Illegal Immigration Relief Act last summer, imposing fines on landlords who rent to illegal immigrants and denying business permits to companies that employ them. Another measure requires tenants to register with City Hall.Hispanic groups and the ACLU sued, contending the measures are unconstitutional.In opening statements, an ACLU attorney told a judge Monday that there is no evidence to back up the Hazleton mayor’s claim that illegal immigrants are destroying the quality of life in his city.“Even if illegal immigrants really are wreaking havoc on Hazleton, that doesn’t change the legal analysis” that the crackdown usurps the federal government’s role, said Witold “Vic” Walczak, the Pennsylvania legal director of the American Civil Liberties Union.Kris Kobach, a law professor representing Hazleton in the case, said the town has welcomed immigrants throughout its history.But after 2000, Hazleton began to see new criminals and new crimes, said Kobach, an immigration adviser under former Attorney General John Ashcroft.Crimes cited
The city had one murder in 1994 and did not have another until 2001, when an illegal immigrant was allegedly responsible for the slaying, he said. Five more killings happened in 2005 and 2006, all allegedly committed by illegal immigrants, Kobach said.In court papers, Hazleton officials said illegal immigrants were responsible for at least 47 crimes since last spring, consuming much of the police department’s overtime budget. Illegal immigrants were the subject of one-third of all drug arrests in 2005, and they have driven up the costs of health care and education, the city said.One of the first witnesses testified that the law inspired a “wave of hate” in a city where Latinos and non-Latinos previously had gotten along.Dr. Agapito Lopez, 63, a retired ophthalmologist and Hispanic leader in Hazleton, testified that he received hate mail and his neighbors were no longer friendly toward him.Non-jury trial
The judge barred enforcement of the law pending the outcome of the non-jury trial, which is expected to last two weeks. Dozens of cities and towns around the country have followed Hazleton’s lead.“This is the day we’ve been waiting for for a long time,” Mayor Lou Barletta said outside the federal courthouse. “Small cities can no longer sit back and wait for the federal government to do something.”Under the law, race and ethnicity could be used as a basis for making a complaint, as long as they are not “solely or primarily” the factor — leading the plaintiffs to claim the city was sanctioning racism. In court Monday, Kobach announced that the City Council planned to remove those three words, making any complaint even partially based on race or ethnicity automatically invalid.© 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.var url=location.href;var i=url.indexOf('/did/') + 1;if(i==0){i=url.indexOf('/print/1/') + 1;}if(i==0){i=url.indexOf('&print=1');}if(i>0){url = url.substring(0,i);document.write('URL: '+url+'');if(window.print){window.print()}else{alert('To print his page press Ctrl-P on your keyboard \nor choose print from your browser or device after clicking OK');}}URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17576996/?GT1=9145
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