RE: Have you guys seen these?
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RE: Have you guys seen these? - 1/16/2008 11:22:29 AM
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academic
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I think I am glad I missed out on this one except to say that the govt. here considered banning Scientology as a Sect. I dont think that, I just think they are mentally defectives.
Two things :
A warning has just been issued about compact fluorescents - if you break one, dont sweep up or vacuum because the tubes contain mercury.
Second thing : UK and probably you are covered in fields of Oil Seed Rape which is used to make bio-ethanol and all such good things. The EU has just announced that Oil Seed Rape is damaging to the environment.
Lastly, Global warning - the most natural thing in the universe is cycles - heat cycles, co2 cycles, etc. The last Ice Age was about 25k years ago and we are just entering another phase of a cycle. Global warming has been repeated over and over again in the planet's life time. That's not to say that man can or should survive it. As long as the Earth as a living organisation [Gaia] does, thats good enough for me.
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96 F20Z Accord
forgotten what it was I used to have here.
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RE: Have you guys seen these? - 1/16/2008 11:57:18 AM
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falkore24
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Roger that! So if you drop a CFL, leave it there and open the windows until the wind cleans it up ...... uh, I think you have to sweep it up ..... or use a vacuum. hmmmm, everyone using CFL's should go buy a HEPA filtered vacuum in case you break one!!!!
Sorry academic, I couldn't not comment on that.
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RE: Have you guys seen these? - 1/16/2008 11:59:18 AM
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academic
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Sorry about this to all people with religeous convictions. In the last national census in UK one question asked people to indicate their religion. Sufficient answered "Jedi" that it is now an official religion in UK.
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"I ain't no nice guy" Motorhead.
96 F20Z Accord
forgotten what it was I used to have here.
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RE: Have you guys seen these? - 1/16/2008 12:09:18 PM
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falkore24
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That's awesome!!!! How does one convert to Jedi-ism??? Who do they report to? I can imagine a bunch of Star Wars freaks in coustumes sitting in a church or temple setting with Yoda giving a sermon.
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RE: Have you guys seen these? - 1/16/2008 12:17:01 PM
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00AccordLX5spd
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Do they have real light sabers? If so....sign me up
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RE: Have you guys seen these? - 1/16/2008 12:44:49 PM
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falkore24
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Another cousin:
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RE: Have you guys seen these? - 1/16/2008 12:54:01 PM
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Tony1M
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quote:
ORIGINAL: academic
............................
Global warming has been repeated over and over again in the planet's life time. That's not to say that man can or should survive it. As long as the Earth as a living organisation [Gaia] does, thats good enough for me.
I'd like to see humanity survive at least until my grandchildren die.
I think there's some value in pointing out something that deserves a lot more attention than it gets in the press - human population. Please note the historic human population of the world - particularly prior to 1800.
From here:
http://www.eoearth.org/image/Figure_1_long-term_population_growth.JPG
And farther back from here:
http://www.worldhistorysite.com/population.html
And here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population_estimates
What impact does the increase in human population have on the biosphere of the Earth?
Here's some history of coal use:
http://www.bydesign.com/fossilfuels/links/html/coal/coal_history.html
and
http://books.google.com/books?id=2177UCY91_gC&pg=RA1-PT14&lpg=RA1-PT14&dq=historic+coal+consumption&source=web&ots=BZce1-CP2S&sig=4iwfkHS1s11UYKlDw6pW1_J4FO8
Some history of oil consumption:
http://www.bydesign.com/fossilfuels/links/html/oil/oil_history.html
and from here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum#History
Finally, here are some historic fossil fuel carbon contributions to the atmosphere:
In closing, the notion that human activity has not had, and will not have, any effect on what would have otherwise been a "natural" cool/warm/CO2 cycle (that is, the natural cycle on an Earth that never had a human population) is not credible.
If one believes that the burning all of that fossil fuel, and the cutting down of much of the world's forests, has had no effect on the world's atmosphere, truly, one is living in a dream world of delusion.
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Tony
1992 Accord LX, 4AT, 4 dr, no AC, no power anything
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RE: Have you guys seen these? - 1/16/2008 1:05:03 PM
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academic
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Easy. Just live in the Geordie Republic.
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RE: Have you guys seen these? - 1/16/2008 1:21:37 PM
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Tony1M
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quote:
ORIGINAL: falkore24
Roger that! So if you drop a CFL, leave it there and open the windows until the wind cleans it up ...... uh, I think you have to sweep it up ..... or use a vacuum. hmmmm, everyone using CFL's should go buy a HEPA filtered vacuum in case you break one!!!!
....................................
As a laboratory technician working in power plants, I cleaned up mercury spills.
Mercury is a very dangerous substance. For example, the vapor from any drop of mercury on the floor of a house will almost immediately fill that room and all the other rooms of a "tight" house. The concentration will be very low, but measurable. If the drop should happen to be heated - say on a warm floor, or in a hot-air register - the vapor pressure will rise and the concentration of vapor in the home's atmosphere will rise. Not a good thing.
If a vacuum cleaner is used to pick up liquid mercury, the vapor will be spread much more rapidly, unless a so-called central-vacuum system is used - one that discharges outdoors. Best to immediately pick up and/or soak up any spilled mercury. Once the big drops are picked up, a piece of natural chamois or rough leather can be used to soak up any remaining residue. Dispose of the cleanup materials at a proper recyling facility.
About power plants. I think many people don't know that mercury emissions from power plants are vaporous. Yes, mercury boils, just like water, and it has a vapor pressure just like water - even at room temperature. Somewhere downwind from that coal-fired plant, as the flue gas cools, mercury will condense and fall to the ground as a finely-dispersed liquid. From a big plant, many pounds per year.
Many years ago I worked near a power plant that orignally had a mercury boiler instead of a water boiler. Hot, high pressure mercury vapor coming out of the boiler would turn the specially-designed turbine and be condensed back to liquid in a water-cooled condenser. Fortunately, the plant was converted back to water after only a short time in "mercury mode".
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RE: Have you guys seen these? - 1/16/2008 1:36:16 PM
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falkore24
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So if you drop a CFL, you evacuate the house? I wouldn't expect the amount of mercury vapor from a bulb to be enough to cause any problems. That's insane about the mercury boiler .... don't they know that there's no such thing as a perfectly sealed system?
I guess we should add 5 layers of activated carbon to that HEPA vac.
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RE: Have you guys seen these? - 1/16/2008 1:56:11 PM
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academic
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Just to back up Tony1M, I still have traces of mercury in my bone marrow from the 60's when I worked in a plant which used large quantities as part of the process. Not that bothered as I now have Lead, Cadmium, and Arsenic as well from the 80's. can you now see why I dropped out of industry ?
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"I ain't no nice guy" Motorhead.
96 F20Z Accord
forgotten what it was I used to have here.
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RE: Have you guys seen these? - 1/16/2008 2:00:48 PM
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academic
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Sorry but I'm going to wind your misgivings up even further. A survey showed that most schools with science labs had dangerous concentration of mercury from broken thermometers dropped by students. Why do you think all us scientists are a few cans short of a 6-pack ?
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"I ain't no nice guy" Motorhead.
96 F20Z Accord
forgotten what it was I used to have here.
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RE: Have you guys seen these? - 1/16/2008 2:05:43 PM
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academic
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Many people have remarked that I resemble Yoda. We have never been seen in the same room at the same time. Hum. makes you think doesn't it.
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"I ain't no nice guy" Motorhead.
96 F20Z Accord
forgotten what it was I used to have here.
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RE: Have you guys seen these? - 1/16/2008 2:23:30 PM
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nafango2
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we have a central vacuum but it vents to the basement, not outdoors. ive never heard of them venting outdoors...
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RE: Have you guys seen these? - 1/16/2008 3:00:17 PM
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Tony1M
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quote:
ORIGINAL: nafango2
we have a central vacuum but it vents to the basement, not outdoors. ive never heard of them venting outdoors...
In every house I've been in in Edmonton that has central vacuum system, it vents outside. Think about it. Expensive, restricting HEPA filters are completely unnecessary on outside-venting systems. If one lives in a really air-tight house, one should crack a window before vacuuming the carpets - to let air INTO the house so that your walls don't implode!
falklore, as I said, the thing to do if any fluorescent bulb breaks is simply pick up all the pieces and dispose of them at a recycling facility. I don't think it's necessary to vacate the room if a CFL breaks. That's a bit overkill, imo, but here's what Wikipedia says about broken CFLs (my emphasis in bold):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_fluorescent_lamp
"Cleanup of broken bulbs
Broken incandescent bulbs inside a house or an office do not pose any environmental hazard beyond that of broken glass. However, like other fluorescent lamps, broken CFLs release mercury vapors, and require special handling to clean up. The EPA warns against vacuuming, suggesting instead that you vacate the room and open windows for fifteen minutes to allow any mercury vapor to air out, then clean up the breakage while wearing protective gloves, and use double plastic bags for all broken pieces. They suggest using duct tape to pick up small pieces.[3] Special handling upon breakage is currently not printed on the packaging of household CFL bulbs in many countries."
As one begins to understand the full impact of CFLs, including their manufacturing costs, disposal costs, and possible environmental impact of bulbs that are improperly disposed, one has to wonder if the energy savings are worth it. LEDs may be a better way to go in evey respect. We'll soon find out.
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Tony
1992 Accord LX, 4AT, 4 dr, no AC, no power anything
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