TOO MANY SPEAKERS?
 

I'm thinking about adding two kick panels with 5 1/4 speakers in the front. That is, in addition to the two speakers I already have in the doors. With 4 speakers in the front, will it sound weird or will I get a good sound?

RE: TOO MANY SPEAKERS?
 

It wouldn't hurt toadd kick panelsfor more of asound stage. However I wouldn't leave the factory speakers in there. If you are planning to just add a set of components then you may want to use thoseand replace the factory and use their respected crossovers.I am doing something similar in my cartomorrow.I'm removingthefactory speakers and doing a 3-way setup. Adding kicks with 5 1/4" components in them and installing 6 1/5" midbass in the doors. Not using rears at all. Just sub in the trunk.

RE: TOO MANY SPEAKERS?
 

What do you mean by midbass? Sorry, I'm not too smart when it comes to electronics. I just got a pair of jl 2 way speakers for the ddors and I'm planning to get some 5 1/4 for the kick panels. Please keep me updated with your progress.

By the way...Do I need a special adapter for the aftermarket speakers in the doors? I heard accords work with a clip system for the speakers.

I hope to hear from you....Thanks a lot

RE: TOO MANY SPEAKERS?
 

I too have a similar setup like Filk.

If you were to breakdown all the speakers by the spectrum of frequencies that they play it would be like this: Tweeters, midrange, midbass, woofer(comonnly called a subwoofer). This of course is when what is called a three way component set and subsare utilized. These are all seperate speakers and when purchased as a component set come with a passive crossover that splits the full range signal up into the specified sections of your highs(tweeters) midrange(usually a 4" driver) and the midbass(usaually a 5.25 or 6.5 driver). Whena two way component set is used there is no midrange and so the 5.25 or 6.5 driver is used to cover those frequencies. Hope this helps and doesn't confuse you anymore than you might already be.

When you say 2 way speakers, I am going to assume you have a component set? I'm also going to ask this and you need to be realistic in your answer of this : How well tuned are your ears? Meaning how well can you hear flaws in a sound system? I myself have been around car audio for fifteen years and spent three years competing in sound quality shows. I have been a judge at two shows although I really didn't want to be. I now just try to enjoy the music as much as possible without figiting whenever I hear something strange or the tiniest little rattle. I guess I should ask what other pieces there are in your system (brand name and model number or is the rest stock) and do you plan on competing (SPL or SQ). Well it seems that I have asked you more than a couple of questions and I might as well ask one more: what style of music do you listen to?

RE: TOO MANY SPEAKERS?
 

Wow!! That was a lot of info. After work, I'm going home to digest everything!!!lol

Anyway, This is what I'm doing.
I have everything stock.
Ijust got... Rear speakers 6x9 pioneer TS-d690r
2 way full range 330w/80rms----freq25-32

Front Speakers (for the doors) 6 1/2 JL audio
2 way RMS 60W 4 ohm 89.5db ---freq59-22 khz
2 10" kicker subwoofers in a box and 1 amp
looking for a head unit.....

I'm not looking for competition....just a nice sound. I do not have a trained ear like you but I can tell if something is distorted.(that's about it!)

Now, I have a pair of kick panels I'm installing that hold 51/4 speakers and 2" tweeters. I still have to get the speakers.

I have a 99 accord er v6. It comes with (I think) tWo tweeters on top of the dashboard (Which I really don't want to play with unless I have to)

So.......What is your advice master? lol

RE: TOO MANY SPEAKERS?
 

Do you have the model number of the JL 6.5?
What amp do you have pushing the 10's?
What is the model number of those kicker 10's?
Are your kick panels the Q-form brand or something else?
Is the sub box sealed, ported, or bandpass?
Was it built for these subs or is it a prebuilt box?

This is what I would do and may be a little extravegant for you let me know and I can simplify it some.
Find a head unit with 3 sets of rca's (front rear sub) and that those outputs are a high volt output (8 volt preouts would be really nice but are limited to find, 5 volt is more standard and will do well) If you want a suggestion on brand: Eclipse.

Get a set of JL 5.25 components so as to not have too much of a sound difference from the 6.5 you already have.

Get a small four channel amp to power your "front stage". The front channels will power the component set and the rear channels will power the 6.5 in the door. Something that has around 40 to 75 watts RMS at 4 ohms will do just fine. Make sure that you see the power rating at 4 ohms. Many amp manufacturers will advertise their amps power rating at 2 ohms which is nearlly double what it is at 4 ohms. Make sure the amp can run off of just the front set of inputs, most amps can.

Get a small two channel amp to run the 6x9 in the rear. Again, 40 to 50 watts per channel at 4 ohms will do just fine.

Don't go cheap on your RCA's, but you don't need to buy the most expensive set either. I use Monster Cables 401 series cables but the 301 series is what I suggest. You will need a 2 channel set to run from the headunit to the four channel amp. A two channel set to run from the head unit tothe two channel amp. And finally a two channel set to run from the head unit to the sub amp.

Lets see how you like this and we'll move on from there.

RE: TOO MANY SPEAKERS?
 

You don't know how much I appreciate your advice.

Ok, The jl front speakers model are vr650-cx1
The amp I have never heard of before( I got the set up at ebay used) It is red and it says dragster on it.
The 10 subsare bandpass but to access the model I would have to open the box and see it.
I just got a head unit from one of my friends Panasonic CQ-CS410U

I don't know how I can attach pics but I will try tonight so you can see them.

As far as the amps...any inexpensive ones you can recomend? For both the "sound stage" and rear speakers?

RE: TOO MANY SPEAKERS?
 

You are welcome, and I enjoy talking stereos with folks.

Your JL 6.5 are good.
Dragster amps are from an Italian company and are not widely distributed in the states, but don't worry until you get it hooked up and then we shall see how well it does. I do not have any hands on expierience with them so I don't really have an opinion except that I will try anything till I have a bad expierience with a certain brand then it takes alot to win me back. Is there a model number on it somewhere? There should be a wiring diagram on the bottom of it and the model number.

Your head unit is great, 5 volt preouts and it has crossovers built in as well. Downside: no ipod, or usb connections, bummer, but it plays mp3 cds so it makes it worth while still.

I'm gonna guess that you did not load the subs into this box then? Okay, take this for what it is worth : Most people do not understand how to wire up subs with multiple voicecoils and or multiple subs. I recomend you take one sub out to see two things: the model number of the sub and how it is wired. Do you know parallel and series formations of wiring up voice coils? If not I can explain it later. The model number will be the key as to what you should do. I'll give you this bit of info as to why it is so important. Kicker makes both single voice coil (SVC) and dual voice coil (DVC)subs. The voice coils come in two versions, 4 ohm and 2 ohm. If your amp is a two channel amp and we bridge the two channels together, then we better have a 4 ohm load. (Most amps can not handel a load lower than 4 ohms bridged) To get a 4 ohm load we will need two 2 ohm single voice coil subs wired in series or two 4 ohm DVC subs wired series/parallel. Not tring to get two technical yet, just attempting to give an example. Let me know if you need more of an explanation on anything.

And as far as amps go...... there are many to be found. Iuse ebay and have had mostly good luck from purchasing used amps. It will be up to you but I would try to find two amps that are from the same lineup. Like if you went Alpine I would use the MRP-F450 for the front and the MRP-T220 for the rear. This is just an example and somewhat a recomendation. I have used the F450 amp before in a ex-girfriend's car and the MRP-M450 and they were great. These amps are a few years oldso finding new ones online should have good pricing. Ebay is another good source for new amps as well. It all depends on how much you feel like spending. Stay away from the Phoenix Gold titanium series or Xtant X series, THOSE ARE MINE!!!! and I don't need anyone outbidding me again. J/K on that I'm set right now and not looking for any more amps.Back to the point:keep in mind that when you start having this much equipment, you start running out of space. Both of the amps I mentioned are small in size and so stuffing them under the seats might be an option.

RE: TOO MANY SPEAKERS?
 

I'm writing some stuff down and taking some pics. Also, to my surprise they were not 10's they are 12's. I took out one of them (partially because the cables were kind of sottered on the terminals) and it says kicker comp vr 4ohms. But hopefully by tommorrow I will have some more specific info on the rest of the stuff. Thanks for your patience!!!! and HELP!!!

RE: TOO MANY SPEAKERS?
 

Try pushing straight down on the terminal then removing the speaker wire. Kicker uses spring loaded terminals. Soldering straight to the terminals voids any warrenty by any speaker manufacturer by the way. So I hope that really isn't the case. The Comp VR series has always been DVC and since it says 4 ohm then thats the version you have. The power range is like 400 watts RMS and 800 watts peak. These are good subs, I like them and have used them often.

RE: TOO MANY SPEAKERS?
 

almost done....

RE: TOO MANY SPEAKERS?
 

So how's your progress on this stereo going?

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Well, kind of frustrating. I attempted to scan the amp, google images and nothing with the schematics but nothing.

Here's a brief description.

topof the amp : Dragster DA 2002 200wx2RMS2/1 channel full mosfet power amplifier w/built-in x-over.

Side : crossover operations ....there are3 switches. One says frequencies, and you can move it to select from 40 60 80 and 120......the other on/off and the third is a switch to select between low high.

Back of the unit....Gain, L and R inputs, 2 + and 2 - sub/speaker outlet w 4 screws and another 3 for REM GND AND B+

Bottom of the unit.....diagram of connections and at the bottom it saysRMS POWER: 200 WATTS X2 @ 4 OHM, 370 WATTS X 2 @2 OHM AND 800 WATTS MONOBRIDGED.

I'm going to try and upload the pics in a little while.


Anyway, I went to a few stores today to try and find the speaker connectors (for the door and rears) but was not lucky( the ones you can get so I don't have to cut the oem speaker wires and I can just plug in) so I will be going to ebay soon.

I should be getting the q logic/form kick pannels on monday.
What speakers do you recommend for the kick pannels.
Where will I connect those speakers to? (to which speaker wires?) door speakers?

And Just so that I'm clear. I'm getting a small amp for the front speakers, one for the rear speakers and one amp for the subs?

I should have the amp connection kit (which one!!!, how many? for each amp?


Thanks

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RE: TOO MANY SPEAKERS?
 

Okay, I'm guessing that you are wanting to gather up everything you need first, then we can worry about install. Thats good, I wish everyone would do it like this. lets answer some of your questions.

For the kick panels I suggest a set of JL components so as to sound similar to the JL coaxial speakers you have in the doors. Something like : http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_c...php?comp_id=61And they will be powered by the front channels of the 4 channel amp you are getting like the Alpine MRP-F450. The rear channel of this amp will power the VR-650CXi you have in the doors. You should runn new speaker wire from the amp to the kick pannels. And for the dor speakers, either run new speaker wire from the amp to the speakers themselves ( which means running it into the doors through the factory gromments) or just run it up to the kick panel area and find the speaker wires that run into the door and splice into it there.

Yes you should get a 4 channel amp for the front like the Alpine MRP-F450 and a two channel like the MRP-T220 for the rear. You already have the amp for the subs.

As far as power and rca requirments go, that depends on where you will be mounting the amps at. So let me know where you plan on your amps being and I can answer that.

As far as those speaker wire adapters go, don't worry about it, you don't really want to use the factory wiring anyways. just run new speaker wire.

BTW: those subs are really old, I hope they still work.

RE: TOO MANY SPEAKERS?
 

Ok....just got the alpine mrp-t220......one more to go...... Oh! do I need to do anything to the car as far as changing the alternator or adding anything to prevent the alternator from being damaged? If that is a concern....I'm really not into power I just want some nice quality music and If I happen to play it loud i DON'T WANT IT DISTORted. But most of the time it won't be (I think).

RE: TOO MANY SPEAKERS?
 

Won't be listening to it loud???? yeah right. I don't go through all this trouble to listen to my music at moderate levels and I don't think you will be either. Loud is an understatment. Clean is the goal.

I found a local shop to rewind an alternator to output 120 amps and he also put a slightly smaller pulley on it for $200.00. For you,add up all the fuse requirments of the amplifiers. Like the MRP-T220 is just 20 amps and the MRP-F450 is 50 amps, so add what that dragster amp requires. This will be like the horrific lightning strike maximum amprage draw your system will ever pull. Normal operating is like half of it. Now there will be some peaks in there that go close to the max but really only on the sub amp since the more mass that moves the more power that is required. So if your half of the total is over 100 then get a high output alternator. If its less than 100 youshouldn't need one. Of course this doesn't mean you won't need one later, its just that I don't anticipate that you will need one.

RE: TOO MANY SPEAKERS?
 

Hey...I changed my mind about the kick panels. I installed the radio, front and rear speakers and subs. I still would like to hook up the speakers to the alpine amp.

I have an issue....When I turn up the volume the subs stop working. I've tried 2 amps so far and I have the same issue. Low volume...sound great...mi volume ....Loose some of the thumps and as I increase it goes away completely....What gives????

RE: TOO MANY SPEAKERS?
 

It sounds like you either need a better ground for the amp or you need the big 3 upgrade.

Also, if you plan to get any mid-bass out of the front doors, you will need to remove the plastic vapor barrier that is under the interior panel. I had a pair of 6.5" MB Quarts components and I had to turn the bass way down so that it wouldn't rattle. I had planned to replace the plastic with Dynomat, but the tranny died and I got rid of the car before I had the chance.

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What's the big three update? What do you suggest for ground. Thanks

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Hey wass uP good info, thats so funny i have the same KICKERS, except mine are 10's and my box has 2 ported holes instead of 4, they sound good,,, but what im really saving up for is a W7 12', in a special Jl Audio Box it comes in, 750 RSM Watts JL Audio Amp 1000 Watts RSM, but that about $1800, for now the kickers will have to do. I had a Bazooka top of the line, but it blew on me couple days ago, i was driving and i noticed there was no bass, and a wierd smell, i pulled over poped the trunck there was smoke comming from the holes of the Sub, LOL started to unplug everything didnt want to mess my other components. I recomend getting Monster wiring, and most important an OPTIMO (yellow Top) battery, one of the best investments i ever made the yellow top, HOPE THIS HELPS,FOX

RE: TOO MANY SPEAKERS?
 

Smoke out of the subs! Now that is something I don't want to see.!! But as always thanks for the info. I actually ended up splitting the subs. I had them both monobridged to the amp and now I'm using one channel per sub. I also moved the ground to exposed metal instead of painted metal from the chassi of the car and so far no problem.

I had to use another REALLY OLDamp( it actually has a FAN to cool it off!!!!) because the draggster was apparently blown (the sound quality thru the subs was horrible!). I just got the small alpine t220 for the rear speakers just waiting on someone here to give me som input on the wiring.....

RE: TOO MANY SPEAKERS?
 

Okay, sorry I haven't posted in a few days, I got busy.

Subs keep cutting out? sounds like you have them wired below 4 ohms and thus you cannot bridge the channels on the amp. Two channels amps cannot be bridged below 4 ohms, they will shut off. It isn't your ground and has very little to do with the power side of the amp. It has everything to do with the speakers. Did you figure out if the subs were wired parallel or series? Better yet, take the sub leads off of the amp and test the resistance with a multimeter and let me know. If you have it wired where one sub per channel you are running stereo bass while sharing air inside the box. This is a bad combination for the longevity of your subs.

Sorry to hear that you don't want to do the kick panels anymore. Why?

To use your alpine amp to run the rear speakers, if thats what you want to do ( I would use it to run the front), run 8 gauge for your power and just runnew 18 or 16 gaugespeaker wire to the speakers. What size power wire did you run to the sub amp?

RE: TOO MANY SPEAKERS?
 

Chris: I'm not familiar with the Alpine amp in question, but my Phoenix Gold amp can handle 1 Ohm per channel in stereo and 2 Ohms when bridged. It depends on the minimum impedance of the amp rather than a general rule of thumb. In this case, I believe you are correct that the subs were below the rated minimum impedance of the amp.

Leviathann: The ground can be anything that has a solid metal to metal contact with the chasis of the car. If the surface is painted, sand it down to the metal where the grounding strap or wire is connected. There is a good writeup for "Big 3 upgrade" .... please search for it. The upgrade is to reinforce the basic electrical system of the car. The 3 leads are battery to chasis, engine block to chasis and alternator hot lead to battery (+). The article includes links to buy a nice 0/1 guage wire as well as a terminal that allows additional connections.