Timing Belt Tensioner Installation Warning
 

I have replaced timing belts (TB) on 90 Accord EX, 94 Accord EX, and Acura 2.2 CL. All have very similar timing belt hardware. (see attached picture) I have replaced tensioners on several occasions due to noticeable roughness when rotated by hand and dried grease when bearing cover was removed to examine. In those tensioner replacements, I never noticed that the small hole in the timing belt tensioner bracket (inner idler bracket assembly) must engage a stud (picture from GaryL) on the oil pump cover. The stud provides a pivot point for the tensioner to rotate about. If you install the part separately, you are likely to correctly install the bracket hole over the stud accidentally, and that’s probably why I’ve never had a problem until my most recent TB change on my 94EX. However, it can be done wrong, system reassembled, and run OK. I did detect a slight whirring noise which may be related to mis-installation of the tensioner. Noise has disappeared after going back in and correctly installing the tensioner.

Replacement of the tensioner parts, both timing belt and balance shaft belt tensioners, is not described in the Accord manuals. I suspect others have accidentally mis-installed this tensioner also and this note is as a warning to DIY’rs to positively engage the bracket onto the stud. If installed correctly, the pivot range of the tensioner covers the hole in the oil pump cover for the lock bolt, and the spring will pull the tensioner to the full up (tight belt) position. You can push the tensioner down and lock w/ the tensioner lock nut or a separate 6mm bolt through the bracket and into the oil pump housing.

You may get by w/o replacing tensioners, but a seized tensioner bearing would cause timing belt failure and likely engine damage. Replacement cost is reasonable, so it’s not worth taking a chance.

It is also possible to clean and repack these tensioner bearings w/ grease. The balance shaft belt tensioner is very easy. Remove the cover w/ a small screwdriver. Insert blade and run around the outside edge of cover to release. Don’t pry out. The timing belt tensioner is more difficult, as there is an outer cover and a plastic ball bearing cage that spaces the ball bearings around the bearing. It is tricky to pry out and re-install, but not too difficult.

Clean bearings w/ brake cleaner to remove all old grease, and repack w/ good quality wheel bearing grease, and reinstall bearing cage (space ball bearings and press in place), and outer cover.

Good Luck

RE: Timing Belt Tensioner Installation Warning
 

Thanks for the great info. I'll keep this in mind when I change mine this spring.

Mods, can you sticky this?

RE: Timing Belt Tensioner Installation Warning
 

Yeah, I can sticky it...

RE: Timing Belt Tensioner Installation Warning
 

Texas Honda:
I finally have my 1995 Accord together with the rebuilt head, new timing belts, cam and crank seals, tensioner springs and bearing and have the start up noise as you describe but I did get the pivot in place. I used to have the noise before tear down but only when I started with the AC on. Now it is all the time. I did start it with the AC on and the noise continued for awhile longer. On teardown there was wear from the crank pulley rubbing on the lower timing cover. I am going to have to go through the process just as you did.

I learned a few things doing this job. To install the balancer seal I used PVC to make a tool to install it. Just a little 1 ¼ pipe a then a cap. I drilled a hole in the middle and it pulled the seat in nicely. The PVC made it larger then the seal which acted as a stop and I used the bolt from the balancer pulley. I learned you don’t have to buy all Honda parts. I was very impressed with my gasket set from Ishino. My engine with the new oil restrictor sounds a lot better than it did before in regard to the rockers. Honda replacement has larger holes which provide more oil to the head.

RE: Timing Belt Tensioner Installation Warning
 

I have now decided the noise in my 94EX is from the starter armature scraping the field magnets. This makes sense as the noise is only heard while starter is turning. Horrible screeching noise matches similar noise I have heard from cooling fan motors. It is very difficult to pinpoint this loud screech, but I'm fairly confident it is not the timing or balance shaft belts or tensioner hardware.

My 94EX showed a very small amount of wear where the crankshaft pulley rubbed the timing belt cover. I had a 90EX wear a hole in the TB cover and never heard any noise. I patched the hole and reinstalled.

good luck

RE: Timing Belt Tensioner Installation Warning
 

Texas Honda:
This is too funny. I know that we have the same noise and I just went out and started my Accord up a few times and am pretty sure it is the starter, but I wanted to ask you could yours be the starter. If you look back through the post you made about your noise you will see I did ask could it be coming from the starter flywheel, On the Gary post. When you mentioned something like if you crank or bump the key it changes the noise it stuck in my head.

I think it is good you found out about the tensioner being not in the pivot but unless it hit something should not have gave you a noise unless the pivot was not letting it sit flush. I can live with a starter noise better than thinking I might have put something together wrong. Now we have to see what is bad in the starter. I don’t want a rebuilt.


I would more think the starter gear that actuates the flywheel is not returning quick enough and running with the flywheel for a second at engine speed. I forget what they call the gear. Sometimes they will not return at all and make a really weird noise. When I worked at Roush we had a UPS(Roush built the truck) type truck come in for a no start and the starter never released. Driver just noticed it was hard for the battery to keep a charge. It sounded like a water pump when they go bad but at a high RPM.

RE: Timing Belt Tensioner Installation Warning
 

Texas Honda:
The fix for the starter problem may be just taking it out and cleaning it. I remember doing this a decade ago at the dealership. It was mainly old oil causing the problem.

RE: Timing Belt Tensioner Installation Warning
 

Thanks, I have some time off coming up and will remove the starter and inspect.

I reread your post suspecting the starter and it now seems this is likely, but until I can pull a part and find some defect, I won't be sure.

regards

RE: Timing Belt Tensioner Installation Warning
 

When you take it apart, you should be able to see evidence of the rotor hitting the stator (scratch marks). Like you sai, an alternative is the stuck starter bendix (the mechanism that throws the starter pinion gear out). That would keep the starter pinion gear engaged on the flywheel too long & make a nasty noise.

RE: Timing Belt Tensioner Installation Warning
 

If I remember right what you will find is old sticky engine oil causing the problem. I will be taking mine apart this weekend. I think the bendix is not returning quickly enough My Accord is not cranking as fast as it should now. I will have to load test battery also. It looks like there is no reasonable source for Honda starter parts so other than cleaning it time for a rebuilt.

RE: Timing Belt Tensioner Installation Warning
 

Oil as the cause for starter noise would make sense. The distributor is right above the starter and the distributor leaks a little oil constantly (through shaft seal not oring) which drips onto the starter. I plan to pull distributor (for easier access to starter) and inspect it also. I may try to refurbish the bearing end seals to slow/stop this leak.

thanks

RE: Timing Belt Tensioner Installation Warning
 

My Accord made the noise after the engine started[/i] when it was very cold and has not since. I don't know if I have two problems as the noise that day had to be a slipping belt for Alternator,PS or AC. I think the oil on the starter drive should also give you slow performance when it is hot if I remember right. I will keep checking back on you Texas Honda. For now it is too cold for me to do much with mine and if the noise is gone I am happy. I did get a lot of oil from a valve cover leak over the starter when my car overheated. I wonder if just fixing your oil leak will fix the problem without cleaning the starter. There is another Honda Forums site that you may want to check as I know one of the two has a break down of doing the internal distrubtor seal also.

RE: Timing Belt Tensioner Installation Warning
 

I found a very nice set of pics on another site describing distributor shaft end seal replacement. See following link:

http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2214402

I removed my distributor and opened today to see whether it was worth replacing the seal ($16.95 + shipping from partstrain.com). It looked OK. Despite trying to be careful, I managed to install distributor 180 deg off and got a no-start. I damaged (sensor error from distributor)the same distributor w/ same stunt earlier and had to repair by straightening internal frame. I'm hoping I didn't do same thing again, but will check when I replace the seal.

regards

RE: Timing Belt Tensioner Installation Warning
 

I removed my distributor and starter, replaced the lower shaft seal in the distributor (Ishino) and disassembled the stater motor to inspect.

I found no marks on the stator or rotor to indicate contact. Not surprising since good ball bearings support either end of the shaft. I cleaned and polished the commutator and brush assembly and reassembled. The gearbox and bendix appeared to be in good shape. I could see plenty of grease and it spun easily and extended easily. Problem may be in the gearbox, but I decided not to tear into it.

I re-installed everything and starter was unaffected (still occasionally screeching). I've decided to drive until the screeching either gets worse or starter fails. Right now my starter procedure of three starter bumps instead of direct engagement minimizes noise.

Distributor shaft seal works good. No oil dribbling through the distributor. There as a 1/4" layer of oil/crud on the top of trans housing under the starter from the oil stream. This may be last source of oil drip I have, except perhaps some weepage around oil pan, which could be from the distributor drainage. Time will tell.

Regards

RE: Timing Belt Tensioner Installation Warning
 

Excellent post Texas Honda!

My issues are a tad different but worth a full explaination here. I learned a valuable lesson because I tried to save some money and bought a timing belt kit off ebay from The Import Experts rather then to use OEM Honda parts.

Here is the pictures of the problems I experienced.

The bearing in question with labels to describe placement;

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...DSCN2214-1.jpg

Here is the face of my engine where the bearing goes with red arrows depicting the Pivot Boss molded into the oil pump housing.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...ing_stud-1.jpg

Here is a picture showing a side view with a white plastic rod simulating the pivot post on the engine and the bearing installed over it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...DSCN2216-1.jpg

The final adjustment of the tensioner is made after the covers are installed so you will never notice any problem until you fire up the engine.

Here is where my problems began and ended. The bearing on the left is the OEM honda one removed from my engine and the one on the right is the one provided in the kit from PCI (Preferred Components Inc) that I bought from the Ebay seller.

Note the difference in how much more face surface the new bearing has compared to the OEM one and also how much closer the bottom edge of the bearing is to the adjusting bracket.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...g/bearings.jpg

After getting all the covers reinstalled and doing the final tension adjustment I fired up my engine and smoke began pouring out from under the covers. Something was seriously wrong.

We took it all appart again and could not figure it out. My mechanic insisted that the bearing was frozen and possibly defective. Only after removing the bearing and seeing that it was spinning freely did we notice a mark on the face of the pivot stud where this bearing had been pinched. It became very clear the bearing in the kit being wider and closer to the engine surface was the cause of the pinching.

The new belt was toasted and I had to drive to Honda for a new one. They did not have the correct bearing in stock but we did notice the stud itself was much taller then it needed to be so we ground it down so the PCI bearing would not get pinched against it.

We put all back together again and the engine was fine and still is.

I brought all of this to the attention of PCI who at first was very difficult to deal with and not at all receptive to my findings. PCI instructed me to contact the distributor/seller, The Import Experts.

They did agree to reimburse a small portion of the additional expenses I incurred and they claim they have replaced the offending bearing with the correct one in this kit #TS26187.

It has been almost 4 months and I have seen no refund yet.

My mechanic spent twice as long doing this belt replacement and was very upset with the entire situation. He did nothing wrong except to install non OEM parts that were not correct for the engine.

My efforts to save a few dollars ended up costing me twice as much as it should have. A mistake I will never make again.

I don't know the propper way of inserting photos directly into the thread so if someone can help me or make the change I will appreciate it.

Gary

RE: Timing Belt Tensioner Installation Warning
 

GaryL Nice post. A belated thanks for use of your picture which I pinched from an earlier post of yours. I don't share your concern w/ aftermarket products despite your experience. I've used aftermarket tensioners, belts, and other parts w/o problems. The tensioner I purchased on ebay turned out to be a Koyo, which I believe is OEM manufacturer, so I was lucky.

My starter has quit screeching altogether. I suspect, but can't be sure, that the static timing was retarded too much (~8 deg BTDC) compared to 15 BTDC spec requirement. After replacing the shaft seal, I decided to check timing and found I was way off. I reset timing and so far the screech has not reappeared.

regards

OK so PCI eventually go it right with the bearing after the OP pointed it out to them but it makes one wonder about the other components too . Any recommendations on aftermarket TB kits ( Contitech, Gates, others ) that are at lease equal to the parts you get from Honda ?

Any recommendations on aftermarket water pumps too ? - Thansk

I've never had any problems w/ aftermarket parts. GMB water pumps seem to work fine. I've used timing belts by ContiTech and Gates also.

This weekend I replaced water pump on my son's Acura 2.5 TL. I bought an OEM water pump and belt because this car has been a frequent source of problems. I was replacing the water pump because of an intermittent squeal that I could not trace to any of 3 accessory drive belts or accessories. After replacing water pump and checking tensioner bearing (good), squeal was still present. I'm now suspicious it may be a cold-slipping harmonic balancer/crankshaft pulley. When warm the squeal goes away, at least so far. This car had one earlier failure of this component.

good luck

hi great info I wish I had read it earlier and also that the same advice was not in my manual because I had some dramas doing my timing belt and it would have not had happened if i had read your thread.

tensioner warning
 

Texas Honda,
Much obliged! 96 2.2 non-vtec; w/pump died; changed belts also, but could not figure out why Tbelt was so loose. It was the pivot not on the tit! Also packed both tensioners w/new grease. Good thing, the Tbelt tensioner was dry. It was a little tricky getting the ball brg cage out; had to pop it out, as the brgs hold it in. Re-tensioned belt and it looks OK now. Both Honda factory and Haynes manuals don't even mention how to install tensioners! Amazing. Thanks again!
Jim:D

Excellent post Texas Honda! It looks like there is no reasonable source for Honda starter parts so other than cleaning it time for a rebuilt.

Thank you for posting this TexasHonda (and thanks for the heads up on the post, PAhonda). I got my timing belt changed by my mechanic last month, and since then there has been a slight whirring noise and the engine has felt less responsive. I took it back in to him, he went in and didn't find anything. I am not a DIYer and I'm wondering if this is something my mechanic could have missed (he isn't a Honda or import specific guy, but he has always been good in the past).

I'm also trying to figure out how serious it is and whether I should take it back to the guy or take the car to the dealership to have it looked at, or just live with it.

How do I access the picture by GaryL that you referenced?

Thanks again.

Could your mechanic have missed this? Yes, particularly if he only removed the upper timing belt cover and observed belt tension manually. Belt tension may be OK. I think noise may arise from belt misalignment on the tensioner idler.

I suspect pics are peeled out of all old posts to reduce storage size. PM your email address and I'll forward the pics. They are a bit too large to post in this forum.

good luck

I have this noise on my starter now as well on my new accord. I've heard others do it, my last one never did. But this accord has a new starter in it and possibly its defective. It doesn't always do it, seems like you have to let off the key very quickly and then it won't do it.

Fix is to remove the starter and lubricate the shaft the pinion gear slides on to engage the flywheel ring gear.

good luck

Bummer, this starter is sortof a pain. But will do it. Thanks

TB tensioner stud
 

New member. Your post helped us tremendously. 94 Accord has 315K miles on it. Timing belt changed only once before. The one we took off looked like new but we're changing it to prevent changing the whole engine right? Well the stud you spoke of for the inner tensioner was broke off apparently on the first TB change. After careful analysis we decided to drill a hole where the stud was. Then cut 4 horizontal lines on a bolt to act as a tap. We worked the bolt in with some oil then put some lock tight on, and then hack sawed the head off leaving a new "stud". Worked great. You need this stud so the spring can place the correct tension on the tensioner. Pros change in 3.6 hrs. Our learning curve took 3 days!

Wow..:)

Can you give me some details on your repair of the broken pivot piece and how you fixxed it? I'm dealing with the same issue right now and have been trying to come up with a solution all night with no luck. I thought about drilling a hole and putting some kind of a bolt or something in it I was just unsure about how far I could drill into the engine right there and how far I would need to have the bolt into the hole for it to hold up after the tensioner is back on it

What year model of Accord does this issue affect?