2.2 vs. 2.7 Worth It?
 

Right now i have a 2.2 4cyl. thinking about changing it out for the 6 cyl 2.7, just wondering which is more reliable, better under stress, and if its better to just turbo the 4 cyl. and not go with the 6. looking to build something that will smoke the tires off my boss's '72 Nova. He doesnt think it can be done, so i'm going to prove it. Car already comes with aftermarket clutch, flywheel, cold air intake, but was wondering the best way to go to get big HP out of my little engine. I work in auto body, so engines are a little more complicated to me.

Heres the starter pic of my Beast.... I'll have paint, rims/tires, and body kit on it by spring.

Any suggestions would be great!

thanks,

Eli

[IMG]local://upfiles/14024/0F41CD2F71C54BE1B47E545581506C3A.jpg[/IMG]

RE: 2.2 vs. 2.7 Worth It?
 

If you are looking to smoke that Nova you better be hitting around at least 350 hp to the wheels. I would say an H22 swap w/turbo

RE: 2.2 vs. 2.7 Worth It?
 

H22 is a pretty good engine, huh? i'm planning to turbo it, found a TSI turbo for about $3k , can pick up a h22 for $15-1800. Not too bad considering what my boss Mark put into his Nova. I think i should be good with around 350-400 HP at the ground. turbos are such a pain to tune though... I'll definitely be on here for that....

Thanks for the input!

Eli

RE: 2.2 vs. 2.7 Worth It?
 

Aren't there different types of engines for the Nova? Is his Nova a I4, V6, or V8?

RE: 2.2 vs. 2.7 Worth It?
 

That Nova came with a straight 6 or a V-8. Easy money says it is NOT a 6!

RE: 2.2 vs. 2.7 Worth It?
 

That DSM turbo is not gonna cut it. Save your money for a new engine, build up the one you have if you're serious about this and turbocharge it. My money says this won't materialize.

RE: 2.2 vs. 2.7 Worth It?
 

i would just borrow someone else's car (a very fast one) and race him, get the cash and then tune ur car...then race him again, get more cash...and.... i dunno, save it?

RE: 2.2 vs. 2.7 Worth It?
 

To answer the question in the topic: No it would not be worth switching to the V6. It only has 170hp and was only offered in automatic. Your f22 manual trans will not match up to it.
Buildand turbothe f22if you are serious. H22 is best for NA not turbo. If you want to turbo the h22 you are going to have to strengthen the internals (not cheap.)

RE: 2.2 vs. 2.7 Worth It?
 

are u sure u wanna spenta lot of $$$ just to beat ur boss's Nova? it's gonna take a long time until u can do those changes... are u well aware of that?

RE: 2.2 vs. 2.7 Worth It?
 

I doubt you'll beat his nova in an accord if the nova's a 350V8. Even if you have an H22 and/or turbo. Unless you drop some serious cash and boost the hell out of it.

RE: 2.2 vs. 2.7 Worth It?
 

i'll have to agree w/ Jon... it's gonna be soooo hard to beat that Nova w/out spending a serious amount of $$$... what u have to do is bet like 100 on u, then, give one of ur pals 1000 and bet on ur boss's car... that way u'll win cash! (that is, if it's a really big bet and everyone is in on it!)


after thinking about it... it's a stupid idea... just fotget about it... :P

RE: 2.2 vs. 2.7 Worth It?
 

Turbo and rebuild the F22 with forged internals, so you can drop a 200 wet shot in it, then you'd have a pretty good chance

RE: 2.2 vs. 2.7 Worth It?
 

how could i forget the magic of a nitrous shot???? how long do u think the internals will last that way? (im not so well informed w/ nitrous) thanxs falkore!

RE: 2.2 vs. 2.7 Worth It?
 

hes got a blown supercharged 327 in it, small block, its pretty quick, but not raceworthy, not in my eyes, mostly he thinks that it cannot be touched by a "ricer" he and I are good friends, he's actually going to help me build it, so its a friendly competition.

Now, hes got a 396 big block '70 nova that hes working on, almost complete, but he has so much extra stuff in it (vintage air, subs, amps, etc.) i think it will slow him down massively

I had a friend with a turbo prelude that would definitely beat it, thats why i think i can too. to answer the other question, this is not only to beat my boss's car, i'm tuning this so i can make some of these hillbillies around here with their chevelles and cudas look silly too. I know its not going to happen overnight, i have patience, "revenge is a dish best served cold." the f22 in it now is pretty solid, but i'm not sure whther to go with the t3/t04 or the t25 turbo. i dont wanna ebay this thing together... money is not an object, can save for the good stuff, i'd just like to take the collective knowledge of this forum and build a sweet 10 second car. This isnt going to be a daily driver, only shows and races. once i get the kit for it (next month) I plan on airbrushin it myself, i can do the body but if you guys can work me through the mechanics of it (i'm not completely lost) i think i can build a car worthy of this forum.. and an accord that will make peoples heads spin. i'm thinking mabye by fall having it complete, depending on how well it comes together.

Thanks everyone for the input keep it coming

RE: 2.2 vs. 2.7 Worth It?
 

no accord will do 10 seconds! too much wind resistance! with the nitrous, the weakest point is the piston since it will be getting hit with cutting torch heat ..... wet systems keep this to a lower temp, but still very hot. If you use forged internals, a low compression piston and tack weld in a block guard, you will be able to run a good race. You will also need poly engine mounts, 2 torsion dampers and a launch style linear spring suspension. A CF hood and trunk would help a little, and electronics are a must .... ZEX plugs only b/c the ignition system that you will need will burn off an iridium tip. What else ..... E-Manage, MSD or Jacobs (with launch control), one of those specialized nitrous controllers with WOT and window switches that vary by gear .... nice project!!!

RE: 2.2 vs. 2.7 Worth It?
 

Plus the accord is front wheel drive. Front wheel drive can only do so much against a rwd.

RE: 2.2 vs. 2.7 Worth It?
 

If you want a 10 second Honda, you are gonna have to get a Civic. You can try, but you are going to have to GUT the Accord.

RE: 2.2 vs. 2.7 Worth It?
 

Sounds to me like it will take a few years to get all this stuff...not cheap u know..

RE: 2.2 vs. 2.7 Worth It?
 

A lot of that is overkill and not explained very well. 2point6 on Honda-Tech is doing 12's in a CB7 with an N/A 2.6L H22.

RE: 2.2 vs. 2.7 Worth It?
 

10 seconds? While we're dreamin', how 'bout fwd to rwd conversion with a bmw or porsche engine/trans to get really sleepy on 'em! Solid I-beam front axle like the rodders do.
Or body swap your accord onto a skyline chassis.
I saw a v8 miata in a magazine, why not an accord?
Rwd with a motown 454 small block and th400?

JUST SAY NO TO THE 2.7!
I have one, and there is almost NO parts/mods for it anywhere.[:o] It is a good engine for daily use though.
That motown 454 small block is FOR REAL and it would be killer in an accord blow-up project.

RE: 2.2 vs. 2.7 Worth It?
 

I notice you have the same JDM corner lights as i do, how much did you pay for those?

RE: 2.2 vs. 2.7 Worth It?
 

valdeez is right. i have a 2.7 as well and there are zero mods available unless you custom fab

RE: 2.2 vs. 2.7 Worth It?
 

Okay, [sm=dontgetit.gif], if you want to beat this guy's nova with "rice" forget the accord. Get something that's actually a little more rice and a little less family. You can get a CRX drop a 'lude engine in and be running pretty damn fast with the right tires. Not enough to beat the Nova still? Beef the internals a bit and throw some nitrous at it. You'll get it then. Or grab a used 300zx twin turbo for 8500 bucks and go at him then. Those things ran almost 12s bone stock. Just go get a tune up and smoke his ass.

The deal with that Nova is he's going to have an issue hooking up if he's running street tires, the things going to have so much torque he'll be halfway through the tread on em before he even gets moving, now lets hope he's a little smarter than this and doesn't launch at red line, he's still going to have issues hooking up regardless.

The quickest car in my area for a honda is a civic hatch back with a ls/gsr hybrid with a t3/t4 turbo, built, sleeved, polished, the whole bit. He runs an 11.3. That's pretty quick. However, our buddy has a 350z with a 75 shot and smokes him every time. And that 350 weighs a ton more. Of course, that 350 gets its ass handed to it every time it races against the Porche 911 twin turbo that the owner of the local speed shop races. :) He's running a 10.3 OUCH! that car is quick.

anyways, the accord is more than likely NEVER going to beat this nova unless the nova throws a rod off the line, and even then the initial torque is probably going to hurl it over the finish line 12 car lengths in front of the accord. I'm not saying that the accord could never beat it but, there is a lot more "rice" out there that would be easier to do it in. How bout a 240 with a rb26dett? Or an old school 280 with a 350 conversion swap and a 383 stroker kit. That will kick the crap out of that nova!

Still loving my accord because it looks nice :)

RE: 2.2 vs. 2.7 Worth It?
 

Thanks for noticing. Given that this will never happen, I didn't feel the need for in depth explanation. Also, since this whole thread is about a race that will require "over-kill" mods to even be called a race, the over-kill parts fit well. That said, what parts don't you agree with .... the $30 plugs???

RE: 2.2 vs. 2.7 Worth It?
 

ok the main thisg here is that if you want to run a turbo and nitrous you will first need to weld supports in the space between the block and the cylinder sleeve caus if you don't that sleeve will wander and you could have issues, that is if you are set on sticking with the f22 motor. the best option and maby the cheapest would be to order a jdm motor for an early 90's body style accord sir-t with an ecu. The sir-t motor that came in those was a turbo 2.3L. of course you will need to upgrade the turbo on the new motor as well as an intercoller. that could be enough right there, but who knows i could be drunk!!!!!!

RE: 2.2 vs. 2.7 Worth It?
 

The only way...and I mean ONLY way an accord will be a 10 second car is if it was changed into a fully built race car and converted to a RWD.
Regardless of how much power you put into a FWD car, it's main problem is gonna be the launch. When you launch a car weight is transferred to the rear of the vehicle which lightens the front. That produces less traction.

BUT
If you want a pretty impressive Accord
Swap in a H23 (NON VTEC)
Turbo
60-80 shot of spray.

That would equate to about 350+ HP

RE: 2.2 vs. 2.7 Worth It?
 

So far...just about every response I've read. The 2 above me are quite hilarious. I could go in depth about them if you (or anyone else) would like.

RE: 2.2 vs. 2.7 Worth It?
 

Go into whatever depth pleases you.

RE: 2.2 vs. 2.7 Worth It?
 

Everything there is so wrong I hope you were completely drunk when you typed that.

If civic's, teg's, and DSM's can all run FWD and into 10's and 9's, there's no reason an accord couldn't. Of course it'd be a fully built race car, why else would we be talking about this? There's ways around weight transfer, every heard of dragcoilovers, stiffer engine mounts, traction bars?AFWD car's main problem with launching for drag racing is wheel hop.

Look at every single civic and integra that drag races (not professionals) and look at their setup. All it takes is for accord owners to essentially copy what they're already doing and have been doing and adapt it to the accord chassis's. The only thing that's a real difference is that we need more power than they do.

Dry system - Injects nitrous ONLY. Nozzle(s) mounted in your intake. Relies on your own fuel system to supply enough fuel to compensate for the added o2. If it doesn't add enough fuel, thats how you melt a piston, its called detonation.

Wet system - Injects nitrous and fuel together. Properly matched fuel and nitrous jets in the nozzle(s) mountedin the intake. Safest way to run nitrous for the street.

Direct port - Individually placed nozzles in each intake runner inject both nitrous and fuel for each cylinder. Basically a wet system for each cylinder.Creates the most power.

Window switches allow those with an automatic a safer way to run nitrous, it momentarily shuts off the nitrous when the transmission is going to shift gears so that you're not spraying during shifts. That's how you blow your transmission.

Low compression pistons should only be used if you're running boost or a combination of boost and nitrous. Nitrous by itself works best with high compression. Think I'm wrong? Look at any v8 dragster. High compressionand nitrous.

RE: 2.2 vs. 2.7 Worth It?
 

What you said is true, but weight plays a huge factor
Simply put, the Accord is a much heavier car than civics and tegs.

RE: 2.2 vs. 2.7 Worth It?
 

Power to weight ratio

Civic's and teg's have the advantage. We just need more power than them. That's why we get 2.0L and larger motors.

RE: 2.2 vs. 2.7 Worth It?
 

if everything about my post is sooo wrong how come all of it came out of a reputable honda tuning book. research before you speak

RE: 2.2 vs. 2.7 Worth It?
 

Since you asked.


Ah yes...weld in supports so the sleeves dont walk. Ya umm..you know how often that happens? He'll blow piston rings or melt a piston before he ever gets cylinder walk.

Let me check on this early 90's sir-t you speak of. Oh hey, it doesnt exist. In fact, honda never had a factory turbo motor until the RDX, and guess what, its a 2.3L K series.


Someone besides me needs to be doing the researching. I've done my fair share.

RE: 2.2 vs. 2.7 Worth It?
 

BCK- Damn I wish you were a v6 owner![&:]

RE: 2.2 vs. 2.7 Worth It?
 

Why?