Alright...still same thing, crank but no fire..PLEASE LOOK
 

Guys,

I had been posting up with this issue about 2 months ago for a couple of weeks trying to get this issue ironed out on my fiances 96 Honda Accord LX 4 cyl automatic.

Issue is: ONLY WHEN COLD IN THE MORNING... Car will crank and crank and crank but just will not fire up.

What I've figured out since the last time we were trying to figure this out is...every morning, if I just crank the car for about a minute and half- 2 minutes. The battery won't die and it will start up, it runs very rough for a couple of seconds and then BAM it just kicks in and runs PERFECT. I swear, for the whole day..car runs freaking fine.

And it really does seem to be less than 2 minutes every single morning. What I mean by running rough is, running at maybe 2-300 RPM(at least this is how it feels).

The tach does not register while it's running funny for the first couple of seconds. The instant the car jumps out of it's little "limp mode" it runs great.


So far I have:

Replaced fuel pump
replaced distributor cap
replaced plugs
replaced valve cover gaskets/seals
replaced plug wires
replaced rotor
replaced ignition control module
replaced ignition switch
cleaned EGR valve
Cleaned FITV (fast idle thermo valve) thoroughly
Cleaned IACV
sprayed carb cleaner into throttle body while it is cranking but will not start(nothing)
cleaned throttle body
cleaned air filter

When the car cranks over, the timing light does fire off but it will not start. I will double check this again but I've done it before.

I've checked for 12 volts at the coil and even replaced with another coil from an accord that was running and had no luck.



Would it do me any good to take the main relay out and re solder the little connections that are in the DIY section?

What about a valve adjustment?


I will do the checks again tomorrow morning or the next for resistance on the coil and I'll try and get the back probing done again too.

I'm just at a total loss here and am running out of ideas.

Oh, I got the service manual too now

Thank you so much for any advice,

Donnie

Could it be that your engine just has a habit. It sounds like it likes heat. Have you tried it in a garage? Is it the original engine, I don't think your engine has climate feelings lol, but maybe it could be just that.

Any codes. There is a "cold start" sensor of sorts. I'm away from most of my documents/books so I'm working on memory, sorry. On the 4cyl it should be the multi pin connector almost right under the dist on the head. Not the single pin or on the upper hose housing. I would test that for proper function.

Thanks for the quick replies.

There are no codes stored or showing and it does seem to start fine if it's parked in the garage as our garage is insulated. But, it's about 105 where I live right now in the day time and it gets a lot colder in a couple of months...I don't think it will start even in the garage in the fall/winter...

Look up the testing and location of the ECT switch, tells the ECM what the the temp of the engine is. One last thing to you can try, if you haven't, when cold and not starting does starting fluid make it start?

I put in my first post, I have tried starting fluid and carb cleaner with no luck. And a new fuel pump.

Would the ECT prevent spark or air from getting in?

Sorry, read right over the fact you did that already. I'm now as lost as you, have spark by the timing light, fuel either from the pump or spray and still not starting. One thing I didn't see was the fuel filter but that doesn't answer the carb cleaner or starting fliud. So the last thing left is proper "proportions at the right time". Which leads me back to the ECT, it would/should be the thing that controls the proportions when the engine is cold or hot...choke on a carb. Test it and see, sorry I don't have anything else.

You really should have tried to diagnose the problem before throwing parts at it.

Just for the heck of it, stop by an autozone and have them scan for codes just to rule out a problem with a sensor.

If your timing light flashes, then the spark should be adequate.

The only things that I can think of are the fuel filter or possibly the Main Fuel Relay. There is a DIY writeup by hondadude about that. The main fuel relay also sends power to injectors. You can also try the resistance tests on the injector resistor box.

You could have a problem holding fuel pressure. A leaking injector would do that and take a lot of cranking to start. You would have one of more cylinders flooded and lapses in fuel pressure for proper injection of fuel. It would run rough at first. Have you ever tried cycling the fuel pump a few times before stating it up by turning the key to start for a few seconds?

Kris,

Yes, I have. Thank you for the suggestion.

PA, Do you mean I SHOULD HAVE diagnosed the problem first? or SHOULD NOT HAVE?
most of the parts that I listed, the cap, rotor, plugs, wires, valve cover seals/gaskets, cleaning of senors...were just things that needed to be done I was told anyway..
The ignition switch had been replaced about 6 months ago, I just took it to NAPA and they swapped it out free of charge for a new one.
The fuel pump definitely was not needed I'm almost sure and of course it was the most expensive cause my fiances family was convinced to take it a "professional" mechanic..they took it to him and he ripped us for 300 bucks and 3 days for a fuel pump that is loud as heck..NEVER again.
The ICM was like 60 bucks w/ a good warranty so that I just threw at it to eliminate. The soldering of the relay that I was gonna do was free as is the valve adjustment so I was just trying to do what I could that was any possibility considering all current and past symptoms(slight rough/sporadic idle).

Will do. Thank you again for all of the help man. Wouldn't spraying carb cleaner directly into the throttle body AND starting fluid once eliminate the fuel filter? I mean if only for a second? Aren't I bypassing the fuel filter by spraying directly into the Tbody?

I'll have them scan for codes too...will their tool show more codes than tripping the little connector with a paper clip?

Thanks so much,

Donnie

I edited my post. Should proof-read more.

I just find it strange that you get spark and the starting fluid test doesn't help start the car.

Have you done a compression test on each cylinder?

The 96 is OBD-2 so a scanner would give a little bit better detail on error codes. For example a code you'd get by jumpering the connector might lump together 2 or 3 OBD-2 codes.

But if there's NO codes stored by the jumpering method, there will also be no errors by the OBD-2 scanner.

If you hear the fuel pump run for 2 seconds when first turning the key ON, then the main relay would be OK. If you remelt the solder on the main relay, that's a freebie & I wouldn't blame you for doing that just to rule it out.

I've also told people to get the normal maintenance up-to-date because that can confuse the diagnosing process. Don't take any flak for that.

And... prime the fuel lines by turning the key to ON (not START) a few times. The pump runs for 2 seconds each time.

main relay fix
 

Hey,my problem was not startin when it was hot out,i took hondadude's advice, and re soldered all the joints on the main relay,i went outside yesterday,it was 95 degrees out,and it fired right up,u might want to try that before u spend any more money...Dave ps, thanks honda dude

Guys,

I'll try the timing light again tomorrow morning. Of course, this morning she parked in the garage and it started right up..

The fuel pump is definitely turning on for 2 seconds every time. Like I said in one of those posts, the new pump is louder than the old one so it's easy to hear with the radio/AC off.

I've tried the starting fluid/carb cleaner multiple times with no luck at all. Not even a burp. Would this eliminate the fuel filter or not?

I will try the compression test as I do have my tester here at the house with me but I may not be able to do it til this weekend. Should I only do the test when it's not starting or would it make a difference to do it in the afternoon when she comes home from work?

And the main relay fix...is the one where you re-solder the joints on the one that is right up under the steering column(96 accord 4 cyl) behind the cruise control box or something?

I think it may just be time to sell the car and let someone else know that it just won't start before 10 am. lol

What did the ECT sensor test show? If it is like my 95 EX 4 cyl, gray two wire connector under dist. Switch is screwed into the head....if not how much are you asking and what part of the country are you in?

I didn't check the ECT sensor? Do I have to remove the distributor to get to it?

What is the test to do?

I'm in Northern CA

The MFR is in a different location than the 90-93 accords.

Take a look at the bottom of this site where it shows the 94 location (same as your 96) http://techauto.awardspace.com/mainrelaydefine.html

Here is how to resolder it: http://techauto.awardspace.com/solutions.html

When you spray the starting fluid in, do you have the throttle plate wide open?

I've seen the ECT sensor give hard/no start when cold before. Rare but it does happen. Again, should be close to my 95, you can see the gray two wire connector below the dist going into the head. Should not have to remove or move the dist to get to it. I admit I've got a small frame so getting my hand under there is not an issue....ever tried to start on old car (carb) in cold temps without a choke??? Here is one, a reach meaning I've never done it, when cold can you hold the gas open (1/4, 1/2, 3/4, full)and help it get to started, then pedal it to keep it going?
Well, sorry, I'm on the other coast so unless you are going to "give it away" I'd have to pass.