Oil leak after trans rebuilt/ water pump timing belt replaced...vibrate under hood .
 

Yeah! I think. I just got my 97 honda accord Se 221,000k miles on it back from a shop that rebuilt the car's transmission ( honda parts), new
converter, timing belt and water pump rebuilt honda part $1800 USD!
I drove it around for about 30 miles and parked it last night.
Today I noticed 2 puddles under the car and brought it back to the shop. They said they did not tighten the filter clamp ( a temporary filter that collects any debris before it gets back into the trans.) They tightened the clamp and that leak seems to be corrected now. They said I had an oil leak too ( did not notice this before I took it there for the trans job) (I am not sure what it is called) but they said the leak is coming from the back of the large metal container where you put the oil in) I call it the oil pan but I do not think that is what they called it...they said the seal is bad. Could they have caused this issue in doing the above work? My confidence in them is not so great right now since they did not notice a pretty visible issue...but they seem to be genuine and honest to me.

Could they have caused this oil leak issue (I had the seal replaced once or twice before but not for about 75K miles) in doing the above work? Still I did not have an oil leak when I brought the car to them.
Also: important
What should I look for to make sure the trans was installed correctly? I had this car for 14 years and can see that everything under the hood is vibrating now and it never did before...they put a new motor mount in but the car has a lot of vibration now..never had before. It also seems to be shifting roughly and the engine is kind of loud. In park you can hardly tell the car is turned on. Could it be the idle or does the timing belt need to be looked at- ...is everything mounted correctly..seriously everything is vibrating and it never did this before when I had the car on and looked under the hood?

(Hey ..Skip below if this is idle chatter to you guys.)They are super nice and half the price of everyone else here so I went to them. They seem hard working and honest to me me. Someone told me they needed a trans a few years ago and the owner let him ( a student) pay monthly until he paid the bill off no interest. I figured the owner was a good person so I thought I would give him my business and he was so much less in price. Two higher priced places.. at least double the cost of what I paid both said and quote "warning you " ..I don't bad mouth anyone but the cheapest is not usually the best." Blah blah I guess this doesn't matter to you guys...anyway.. I just figured the higher priced guys were annoyed because this guy does not charge the exhorbant costs they do. Everyone local ( non-franchise) in the tranmission rebuilding business has been in business for 15- 20 years in this area.

I hope I made the right choice in taking the car to them. I probably would have sold it for $400 if I knew I was going to have to put $1800 into it right now as I was quoted $1200 but things got added..water pump, timing belt,converter. Still less then the cost of just the trans rebuilt at other places..$2200, 2400.

MY QUESTIONS: :confused:Could they have caused this oil leak issue (I had the seal replaced once or twice before) in doing the above work?
What should I look for to make sure the trans was installed correctly? I had this car for 14 years and know under the trunk is vibrating now and it never did before...they put a new motor mount in but the car has a lot of vibration now..never had before. It also seems to be shifting roughly and the engine is kind of loud. In park you can hardly tell the car is turned on.

Any feedback is deeply appreciated. THANK YOU!

1. Maybe, maybe not. The oil pan could be leaking. But since they replaced the timing belt and water pump, leaks from those components (front balance shaft seal/crankshaft seal/rear balance shaft gear case O-ring) tend to end up dripping off of the back of the oil pan after the car is driven. If the oil pan is leaking, it should be a relatively cheap repair. Perhaps you should have them fix the leak and then they'll be forced to look for leaks at those other sources if the oil pan repair doesn't fix the leak. You've got some negotiating room there if they find leaks involving the work done replacing the timing belt.
2. Which mount was replaced? Automatic transmission cars have a vacuum operated rear mount that reduces vibration when the car is idling in gear. If they replaced that mount with a solid, standard trans car's mount - or if they forgot to hook up the vacuum line - that could cause the vibration you described.
3. IDK about the loud engine...how is it loud? This year Accord's transmissions are famous for "rough shifting". There's a throttle cable that can be adjusted to soften shifts.

$1800 for all that work is a good deal. Take the car back, explain the issues, and give them a chance to make it right.

I think the OP is talking about the valve cover. If so, when doing the timing belt work the valve cover had to come off. They should have put a new gasket on IMO.

OP- can you take a picture and show us where the leak is coming from?

What is the idle rpm's when in Park and then in D4?

The sifting issue is a bit hard to call....is it the fact you got use to the way the old one shifted? One thought, there is a "throttle control cable" from the throttle body to the trans. This cable had to come out/off as part of the trans rebuild/replacement. Is it possible that it was not put back on with the proper adjustment?

Thank you Poorman and Roader for the
very helpful information. Just to confirm, I am talking about the valve cover/gasket. ( I looked up the term and saw a picture of one.) They told me the valve cover was leaking from the back. I looked under the hood after driving about 30 miles today and it is messy. I will check oil level tomorrow morning when the engine is cool. They did not replace the gasket when they did the timing belt and I asked if they had to do anything with the valve cover when they replaced everything but they really did not answer so I will go in and ask them directly if they had to remove the valve cover when the replaced the timing belt..so odd they would not have told me a gasket needed to be replaced since they had the cover off such an inexpensive part. They told me it would cost me an hour labor plus the part. The owner would probably do this for no charge but his son is starting to take over the business and he is a little different- so I may end up paying for the 1 hour labor and gasket. Annoys me if since you have confirmed they had to take the cover off anyway to do the timing belt job.

I just thought I would mention that when I say the engine is loud and shifting is hard/rough I meant when the trans shifts not the actual shifting from the column from inside the car. I seem to notice the noise and rough shift from engine when going from a moderate speed to a faster speed over 35-50. I have not driven on the interstate yet. I am near I 95 in PA and if you aren't driving 70 you could cause an accident. I just want to make sure the car is road worthy before taking it on the interstate/high speed.
The loud sound is still pretty loud and the shifting from one gear to the next is still rough but it seems a little better. It sounds like I am in a truck but I can deal with loud as ling as everything is running fine. ( Radio can sort of drown it out.)

Trans fluid is still leaking a little on the ground but it could be residual.
I am going to take it back this week and I will have them to replace the gasket on the valve cover. I am going to ask them why they did not replace it to begin with since they had to take the cover off for the timing belt/water pump.

I do not have the net on my phone to take a pic but if I can figure something out I will take a pic and upload.

Thanks again. I will keep you posted.

Poorman regarding:
What is the idle rpm's when in Park and then in D4?
I will check tomorrow and let you know. Thanks.

Operating idle RPM should be about 700-ish, even when you put it in gear.

If not good, then look for my post in the DIY section about setting the BASE idle.

Valve cover gasket leak is their fault. They should repair it for free.

update to All
 

Talked to the owner today he said I had the oil leak when I took the car in for service. He did not tell me this when I brought the car in for service. I said you had or remove the valve cover to do the timing belt/water pump so why didn't you replace the gasket at that time? He said they do not remove the valve cover when they do this work. He said I did not want to keep adding to your bill and I said well I still have to pay fro it now and labor. I am bringing the car in tomorrow. I will likely pay the labor on this but I really do not think the oil leak was there when I took the car in for service but I cannot be sure.

The tach stops at the line before 1 when the car is in park idle/ and when it is in D4/idle. (I guess this is around 700?)( There are only 2 lines between 0 and 1 on the tach and three lines between all the other numbers on the tach) (When I first start the car the idle is difference in both cases.)

Need to confirm what mount was replaced tomorrow.
Thanks all.

Pretty sure the lines on the tach are like this...

heavy line labeled "1" = 1000rpm
light line = 750rpm
mid-weight line = 500rpm
nothing below that except the peg.

Just me and going on memory.

The valve cover goes "over" the upper timing belt cover on this generation Accord. On the drivers side of the car, towards the drivers side wheel, the valve cover fits over the upper timing belt cover.....black plastic cover on that side if the engine. So again, to do the timing belt the valve cover had to come off......if not then ask how they assured that the cam shaft was aligned to TDC for cyl #1 when they changed the timing belt?

Either way, if the leak was there before then....not much to fight about. If it was me and a customers car, I would have charged for a new valve cover gasket. .On my own cars, well I can only yell at myself.

Now, again my memory is bad, if the SE came with vtec - should be right there on the valve cover.....and the oil leak is coming from the "left rear of the valve cover" as you stand under the hood and looking at it.....then it could be from the vtec solenoid o-ring.

Just to be clear, we're talking about the valve cover, the top part in the pic, right?

Yeah, the top part is the valve cover. Right across the middle, it says "16 valve" in the picture. Well, yours might say VTEC.

In fact, if the "F23A1" in your signature is correct, that IS a VTEC engine.

The VTEC spool valve is between the valvecover and the intake manifold, more towards the right-side of the car. (towards your left if you're standing in front of the bumper) The VTEC spool valve has a triangle flange with 3 bolts. It might be leaking where it's bolted against the head??

Also... in that picture, on the end of the valvecover, you can see the arched structure that looks like it fits over a pulley. That lip captures the plastic upper-timing-cover. So that's why the valve cover has to be removed in order to do the timing belt. At least it has to be unbolted and lifted 1/2-inch or so.

I was asking the OP...

OOpss...
sorry about that.

Thanks for the below Poorman. I'll let you know how it turns out. Your response was very, very helpful.

The owner insisted that they only unbolted 2 bolts ( drivers side of the valve cover to replace the upper timing belt)
I said that seems a little unconventional and asked how they assured that the cam shaft was aligned to TDC for cyl #1. He really did not know what to say and was sort of surprised...then he said he would work with me on the price. He added that the distributor ( left of valve cover if you are looking at the engine) could possibly be leaking and he could not tell from just looking under the hood. I told him just to replace the valve cover gasket nothing else wihtout talking to me and that I thought this work should have been done when the upper timing belt was replaced.

(The valve cover goes "over" the upper timing belt cover on this generation Accord. On the drivers side of the car, towards the drivers side wheel, the valve cover fits over the upper timing belt cover.....black plastic cover on that side if the engine. So again, to do the timing belt the valve cover had to come off......if not then ask how they assured that the cam shaft was aligned to TDC for cyl #1 when they changed the timing belt?)
The engine mount that was replaced was the front mount. The car is still vibrating a bit..the steering wheel. I can't tell if anything under the hood is vibrating out of gear until I have an "assistant". Otherwise the car seems to be running pretty well.

Ha this is turning out to be money pit, but I still just love the car.
I know the next thing I will need to do is the catalytic converter./inspection in a few months...and shocks...if I chose to ...spending more than planned for my second run around week day car.

Yes. Thanks. To confirm I am talking about the valve cover no vtec- 4 cyl .

Well, I hope we were able to help in some way.

I might have jumped to some conclusions......If you can help us with "where" the oil leak is we might be able to help more? If a new gasket does not stop it.

The owner is correct, there is an o-ring on the distributor -left side of the engine as you look at it from under the hood - that could be leaking.

My personal opinion, the 97 (any 5th generation 94-97) Accord is a very....very solid car. Yes they all have their things but are really well built cars and a bit of tlc and they will go a long way.

Hey...waived the labor...they said...
 

Hi again!
Thanks for your insight. I did bring my honda back to the shop see posting 3--27-13...and they gave me a little push back and then i basically quoted what you said below about changing the gasket when the tming belt/water pump was replaced ect...see posting 3--27-13. They grinned and said no charge for the labor and charged minimal with a 10% discount on parts...acknowledging the should have replaced the valve gasket cover when the timing belt work was done....i am glad i had faith in them and glad that you told me what to say otherwise i would have paid for the labor. Best thing is i feel like i actually stood up and did not just shell out the cash.
Another shop replaced the starter in jan 11 and by august 2011 the starter died and they woudl not honor the original work in any way and i had to shell out the money again and it was expensive...last time i went to that shop and have been going there for years. The owner just ignored me when i said you just replaced the starter in jan this year. Sad thing is he was so reputable for many years but now he is way past retirement age like 70's and i do not think he cares anymore. Hois main mechanic passed away and now he hires new freshout of school mechanics - different one almost every other day.
Anyway..thanks for all the advice!:):)

Thanks for coming back with an answer, really "thanks" as many never do :(....I hope the leak has stopped?

Again, if it was/is a customers car I would tell them that the gasket has to be replaced so there wouldn't be a "come back". I re-use the gasket on mine every now and then, if I can remember about how old it is. When doing so I know the risk, it is my time and my money.

could have bought 2 more 97s for the amount of money you spent. I would just get a new kia bro srs.

RIP- Honda 1997
 

My 97 Honda was running as smooth as ever after the leak was addressed and all the work I had done last year - trans, water pump,new battery, new lots of things ect. I was loving my car and was hoping to get another 100 K out of it at least...
I appreciate all the advice you guys gave to me on my Baby.
Ug oooh...:(My parked Honda was hit and totalled a bit ago and I have not been on the site for some time. It was innocently parked on the street- legally parked of course. It was towed- to a shop...storage lot fees added up...
( they could not believe how well I took car of the car given the high miles)-rare to see one look so good- interior was perfect/outside really good except for the wrecked part....very sad about my car and since my car was older I just reduced my coverage...it is a total loss for me...I do not have $3,000 to toss ( all the money I had recently spent on repairs) which is basically what happened. I really missed my Honda this winter- so much snow and my new car is not really a snow car....that is why I had 2 cars really one to tool around in any weather and the other for long trips or evenings out.
I miss the ole girl after 14 years..geez! Can you tell it has been awhile since I have been without her...I guess I am silly but considering the money I put into it, the fun I had on all the trips and just tooling around in it.. so dependable...I never thought you could really have an emotional tie with a car for crying out loud but I did..do whatever...Blah, Blah I am rambling ...14 years is a long time.I am truly Thankful I was not in the car though of course-!:D

I just had to say Thanks all for your help in the past.
:cool:
Maybe someday I will get another Honda...:)in the meantime I am $3000 poorer and Honda-less- so sad I really liked that car! Again though I am truly Thankful I was not in the car though of course-! :)
A friend of mine said that "The Universe" has spoken because their is no way you ever would have given up that car. It is true, I would have bandaided that car together if I had to someday. Oh well.

Thanks again...:cool:

Hmmm maybe Honda..wonder if the will ever make a Honda Accord Convertible...The Fit seems practicale but I don't love the look...maybe I will just get an old Honda when I can if I can...daydreaming here:rolleyes:. Ciao!

Vibration could be the counter balance shaft timing off is off
harsh shifts could be non Honda Trans fluid
Oil leak they could have just lifted up the valve cover to get the upper timing belt cover off. Which is not a good practice.