Timing/Timing Belt "99 V6
 

Wow! That was a bit more than I'd expected. I baptized myself by just plunging in, doing a water pump and timing belt on a '99 V6 with 150K. I have had it since 70K and couldn't remember having the belt done, so....
Car is back together, and I don't think I want to ever do this again,....BUT here's the question: how did the crankshaft move 1-2 degrees off of TDC as I was installing the belt? I was VERY careful throughout to repeatedly verify the two cams and the crank sprocket. Here's what I can tell you: I had tautness moving up and around front cam, down to WP and up to rear cam. Coming back down to the tensioner pulley, though, I came up short (way too tight because I had mis-installed the new tensioner pulley on the WP body). So I was pulling and stretching, and later, having removed the belt and studied things and saw the tensioner pin was about an inch from its contact point and realized the new tensioner pulley needed to be rotated, and having corrected all that,....I checked my marks again and was aghast to find the rear cam mark 45 degrees (3 o'clock) off. I guess I pulled it with the belt as I was wrangling. I believe this because I was really pushing trying to pop the belt over the top of the tensioner pulley. Also, the cam kind of "jumps" about 45 degrees at a time; so in repositioning it it required my leather gloves and a good deal of force to carefully turn it and stop at 12 o'clock. But I did. And I got the tensioner pulley positioned, making the next attempt at placing the belt remarkably easy. Let me digress: neither in Haynes nor the V6 supplement to the Service Manual is the torque value given for the tensioner pulley bolt....my fault, I guess, though, since I still don't have the '98 Service Manual to which the supplement is supplemental...Anyway, both cams were good, and the crank sprocket, too. But I'll be damned if the crank pulley isn't off tdc. As I said, maybe 1-1 1/2 degrees after tdc(?) (towards the three marks to the right of the single tdc mark on that pulley). It all turned fine as I spun it 5 times to get the belt seated, etc..And I was just done with it, this after probably 7 hours. So I put it all back together, and there she sits. Did not crank it up. Worried it's a re-do and I don't want to do it so I guess I'll have it towed to a shop. How did the crank move? I SWEAR that woodruff key was in position pointing at 12, and the sprocket mark also at 12. But the pulley was not at tdc.Arrrggghhh. I think I'm surprised that there's no way to hold the three shafts still, and no way other than eyeballs to verify position.

My 99 4cylinder had jumped 2 teeth to the left, which retarded the timing, and it barely ran. The lower pulley bolt had come loose, and the key ate the pulley slot.

The 98-02 service manual only covers the 4cylinder models completely, and only. The supplement covers the V6 car completely. Part of this is because there's just enough differences between the 2 cars that Honda decided to do this. To be honest, I've never done a V6 timing belt, but I have done 3 4cylinder timing belts. Yes plural, as you also have a balance shaft belt to deal with on the 4 cylinder engines. Those take me about 5 hours to do, including replacing the water pump. But yes, it sounds like you need to do it again, or have it done again. I really don't know what to do to keep the crank from moving, short of filling a cylinder or 2 full of rope to lock the crank. Sorry I'm not much more help.

Thanks, Jim. Yes, it's thorough, as I've told you. Still, it lacks some guidance, and that torque I mentioned. And the SM and Haynes both describe using the battery hold down bolt to mark the tensioner position, and an elaborate scheme to plunge back in the pin. I think all that distracted me for about an hour. And what a waste. That battery bolt thread wasn't about to go in the boss as described, and the new tensioner came with the clip holding the pin retracted so none of that was necessary.
Anyway, I might pull it all back apart and inspect it. Could be that I should get the crank pulley on, turn to tdc, and check the cams. Maybe they aren't far off, and since it's all eyeball maybe I was mistaken. As it was, I was focused on the cams, then checked the pulley. But even as I write that I think it's insane to have three independently rotatable shafts that are not "indexed" until the stupid belt is back in place. Sorry for the whining.

Here's another thought... just because you seem so convinced about the crank being positioned.

If you take it back apart, pay close attention to whether the timing mark on the crankshaft sprocket agrees with the marks on the crankshaft pulley. If they disagree, then the timing-belt sprocket is the one you should believe.

The outer rim of the pulley (where the timing marks are) is separated from the hub of the pulley by a layer of hard rubber for vibration dampening. If that gets oily, then the outer pulleys can get out-of-line from their hub. IF(!) that is happening, you need a new crankshaft pulley before it slips around & gets more loose.

I like that thought, Jim. Within my whining I think I was trying to say that I DID believe the crankshaft sprocket. That little mark, and the key, do not seem to have moved, even though the rear cam absolutely did. Can't remember if I repositioned the front cam; if so, it was by 1,2, 3 degrees. That rear one did bother me because it "jumped" about 90 degrees and I wasn't sure if it was ok to spin it clock- or counterclockwise while resetting it. And it was damn hard to turn, even with all six plugs removed. Smooth, but hard. So, yes, I do believe both cams and crank sprocket said "go", and only upon replacing the pulley did I see any misalignment. I think I will get back into it and I'll inspect the pulley and double check everything. Thanks.

Ok, I went back in: when I got the covers off I turned the pulley to line up the two cams, then took a look at the pulley: the single mark was sitting pretty, right at 12 o'clock. So I don't know what I saw before. It might just have been dinner time. But no, I didn't remove the pulley to see the crank sprocket. Took a deep breath and turned the key, and all sounds good. Maybe a soft 'tick tick' that may be the distributor, and the new accessory belts make a soft sound, but engine seems as usual. Thanks again for your ideas.

Not sure for the V6, but on the 4cyl engine the mark in the pulley lines up against a pointer that's molded into the lower timing cover. It's not straight up at 12 oclock.

Another way to check for true TDC is take out the #1 sparkplug & put something like a wood dowel down through the hole. Turn the engine slowly to the point where the stick is up at its highest point. It's not perfect, but it's a lot easier than removing the crank pulley.

You're right; my brain is stuck on 12 o'clock. Here's an image of the front cam and the pulley. Yes, I've used a stickl in the old VW to verify the piston's position when I've somehow lost all orientation of the distributor and firing order, with all the spark plug wires in the wrong spots, etc...Seems like years ago, and I guess it probably was.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.hon...ebfa73ffc9.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.hon...c60fb88d9d.jpg

Congrats on fixing it. It might have just needed to re-prime the fuel system.