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  #1  
Old 03-14-2012, 10:41 AM
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 6
Default EGR valve? sometimes won't start, and rough idle,... help!!!

OK, so i have searched EGR threads, and idle issue threads, non start threads etc, but i haven't found any that really seem to apply.....

So this is regarding my girlfriends 99 accord ex v6 with about 150k miles.

For the past several months, she has had a very intermittent problem which has gotten much worse in the past several weeks.
a few weeks ago, when she tried to start the car, the engine would turn over, but would immediately die. after several failed attempts, she called me and i had her press the accelerator while she was trying to start the car. The car would run, (rough) but when she let off the gas, it died. She tired this again, and this time the car stayed running, but it was rough. She ended up calling a tow truck and about a half hour later she tried to start it and it ran fine. When it runs, it runs fine... no sign of rough idle, or hesitation, nothing...

I had autozone pull the codes and the EGR valve code came up. The guy at autozone explained that possibly the sludge/ carbon buildup was coming lose, clogging up the intake valves, and causing all of the problems. He sold me some "sea foam" engine treatment and told me i needed to suck it in a vacuum line in the manifold and run that through the engine. While i dont know that this theory holds much weight, i am intrigued, but i have read mixed reviews on this procedure, and i can't imagine that running 150k miles worth of built up sludge through the combustion chamber, O2 sensor, and CC would be a good idea.

Also, removing the intake manifold and cleaning out the EGR ports is an option, but i can't imagine that the EGR valve on its own would cause a starting issue, and correct me if I'm wrong, but even if it were completely blocked, it wouldn't affect idle/ starting, it would cause a hesitation on acceleration around 2500rpm.

i took a brief look at the filter, wires, and distributor. Everything looked clean, but i did notice a little bit of oil dripping inside the distributor housing. Thankfully whoever put it on messed up the seal for the cap, so the oil actually leaked out and didn't look like it got on the points at all. While i don't think this is the cause, i guess it could be if the oil gets on one of the points and has to be burned off before the car will run properly.

i hope this gives you an idea of what I'm looking at, any help would be very much appreciated.
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  #2  
Old 03-14-2012, 06:27 PM
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Did the car "seem" to die just as the key was released from "start" to "run"? If the car is still acting up, check the power to the BLK/YEL wire going to the dist when the key is on/pos II....trying to rule out the electrical part of the key switch.....also note, when the key is turned to on/pos II the CEL should come on (fuel pump primes) and then turn off after ~3 seconds....is it?

An EGR not closing off can cause a car not to start. Being that you are getting an EGR code - would be nice if we have the actual code, should begine with "P" and then four digits- I'd plan on doing the cleaning of the intake port(s) and the valve.
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Old 03-14-2012, 07:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poorman212 View Post
Did the car "seem" to die just as the key was released from "start" to "run"? If the car is still acting up, check the power to the BLK/YEL wire going to the dist when the key is on/pos II....trying to rule out the electrical part of the key switch.....also note, when the key is turned to on/pos II the CEL should come on (fuel pump primes) and then turn off after ~3 seconds....is it?
unfortunately this is completely intermittent, and i have never been with her when it happened to experience it. Im only able to ask questions after the fact...
i would think that its not a key switch issue because when she gives it gas, it will stay running, so there is still spark.
As for the CEL, its been on for a year or more... O2 sensor, and the EGR valve.


Quote:
Originally Posted by poorman212 View Post
An EGR not closing off can cause a car not to start. Being that you are getting an EGR code - would be nice if we have the actual code, should begine with "P" and then four digits- I'd plan on doing the cleaning of the intake port(s) and the valve.
i didn't write down the code, but i can take it back to auto zone and have them run it again.

if the valve is stuck open, then wouldn't that just allow exhaust gases in along with intake airflow? should be no change to mixture unless i dont understand the EGR path...

is there a good writeup on cleaning the ports? the TSB seems a little intense, but i watched the video on "erik the car guru" and it seemed much simpler.

thanks for the quick response!
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Old 03-14-2012, 09:16 PM
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Well, all you have to go on is the codes right now....Follow them.

Is the spark weak? There is/was a TSB-recall on the switch, you'd be surprised at the "issues" it can cause......I'd not rule it out yet.

Ask her to watch the CEL when this happens....again, key to on (just before start)- the CEL should come on and then go off. after ~3 seconds...if it does not, then there is another possible issue.

You have a code for the EGR, so it needs to be addressed either way. Humor me "plaese"? Don't want to go into a debate.

EDIT: Ok, here I go. On a system that is working correctly, when you manually open the egr when warm and at idle the car should stall (die) or "run rough"..... so, if the valve is stuck open and the rest of the system is ok, the car dies or will not start. If the "valve" is ok and there is an issue with/in the rest of the system it stays running...........clear as mud?
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My child arrived just the other day, he came to the world in the usual way

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Last edited by poorman212; 03-14-2012 at 09:35 PM.
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Old 03-14-2012, 11:19 PM
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When the car is running, try shaking the key to see if the car will stall out.
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  #6  
Old 03-15-2012, 06:50 AM
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poorman212 View Post
Well, all you have to go on is the codes right now....Follow them.

Is the spark weak? There is/was a TSB-recall on the switch, you'd be surprised at the "issues" it can cause......I'd not rule it out yet.

Ask her to watch the CEL when this happens....again, key to on (just before start)- the CEL should come on and then go off. after ~3 seconds...if it does not, then there is another possible issue.

You have a code for the EGR, so it needs to be addressed either way. Humor me "plaese"? Don't want to go into a debate.

EDIT: Ok, here I go. On a system that is working correctly, when you manually open the egr when warm and at idle the car should stall (die) or "run rough"..... so, if the valve is stuck open and the rest of the system is ok, the car dies or will not start. If the "valve" is ok and there is an issue with/in the rest of the system it stays running...........clear as mud?
maybe ill just humor you =) I do really appreciate your help....
Ill look at the CEL with the key on, and it sounds like i need to get the code rechecked to figure out exactly which one it is, and i assume that will tell me if i should start with cleaning the ports and valve, or start with replacing the valve?
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:50 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAhonda View Post
When the car is running, try shaking the key to see if the car will stall out.
thanks, ill try this too
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  #8  
Old 03-15-2012, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkearney View Post
should start with cleaning the ports and valve, or start with replacing the valve?
Start with cleaning, the valves do go bad but "most" of the time they just need cleaning.
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My child arrived just the other day, he came to the world in the usual way

Heaven is in the palm of my hand and it is waiting here for you, what I am I suppose to do with a childhood tragedy
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:40 PM
 
 
 
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2000, 99, accord, car, cleaning, closed, crank, egr, honda, idle, rough, runs, seafoam, start, valve, wont


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