Desert and sir_nasty,
Thanks for that advice. I guess I will not have to buy another impact wrench. Good.

I am the new owner of that Rdigid R6300 which is in that picture above. I will receive it on Friday of this week. As soon as I do, I'm going to try it on the crank pulley bolt by going through that access hole in the side of the plastic splash guard inside the wheel well.

My prediction is that it will remove the bolt in less than 10 minutes of continuous banging. I'll let the forum know what happens - either way.

 

This does arrise an interesting question... What have other people done when the snapped one? Desert: you ever had that issue?

 

I just put down the latest "House of Tools" flyer and I noticed they're having a very good sale on a small, electric engraver - the same tool you would use to engrave your name on tools or appliances so that you can identify them in the event they're stolen, etc.

I'm going to buy one, round off the sharp end of the engraving bit with a grinder, and then use it as a "vibrator" for the myriad of small fasteners and couplings on the car that, with the pasage of time and exposure to the elements, can get stuck.

Just like in the case of the crank pulley bolt, I want to loosen the bleeder while at the same time applying the LEAST amount of torque.

In this case I'll first soak the bleeder valve with penetrating oil, as has been recommended. Then I'll vibrate it for a time using the egraver. Finally, while putting torque on the valve with the wrench, I'll place the engraver on the part of the valve that attaches to the cylinder or caliper.

In almost the same way that an impact wrench would, the vibration should help the penetrant flow into the nicks and crannies of the valve and help free up the "something else" that's preventing the valve from loosening.

 

The impact wrench arrived late this afternoon.

It's a rather hefty unit - almost 9 lb - but it's still very usable for removing wheel nuts, etc. I buzzed each lug nut out in about one second - just like you see at the garage.

On to the crank pulley nut.

I used no penetrating oil.

To make a short story even shorter, I started the impact wrench within two seconds of starting my stop watch. The wrench removed the crank pulley bolt in 3 minutes and 36 seconds of continuous banging on the bolt.

I was ecstatic.

The wrench did not seem to mind one bit operating continuously for that length of time.

It was actually quite interesting they way the bolt loosened. Even at 3 minutes and 35 seconds, only one second before the bolt frinally broke free, there was absolutely no indication whatsoever that the bolt was about to loosen. Simply stated, after being subjected to banging and vibration for that length of time, the "something else" finally "gave up", and that was that, and the bolt spun right out lickety-split. There's no other way it can be explained, and I find it remarkable.

The victor and the vanquished:


The crank pulley bolt after removal and cleaning with a wire brush:


Torqueing the bolt back on was rather a PIA without that pulley holder, but I managed to do it by stuffing two gloves into the places where the alternator belt meets the crank and alternator pulleys. I also had a screwdriver blade stuck through a hole on the power steering pump pulley and wedged it against the pump body.

Shortly after this, my wife used the car to go pick up our grand daughter for a "sleep over" and the car ran without any problem.

I'm now hoping to get the remiander of the timing belt job parts so that I can remove that bolt again!

It's nice when things turn out as hoped!

I think the Ridgid R6300 is a great tool for those who for whatever reason cannot go the pneumaitc-tool route. If this is not the toughest fastener on the car to remove, it must be pretty close and the wrench was able to remove it easily.

It has two impact speeds and there really is quite a noticeable difference in torque between the two as one holds onto the wrench. I think the lower impact rate would be quite appropriate to use on much smaller fasteners, without fear of shearing them off. When you need to bring out the big guns, you just flip onto high speed and, given adequate banging time, any fastener WILL loosen.

I haven't had the opportunity to try the engraving tool/"impact wrench" idea yet, but I'm very hopeful that idea will be successful, too. I'll report my results.

 

I've just come in from the garage to write this.

That little bleeder valve on the driver's side rear drum brake cylinder is stubbornly resisting my every apptempt to loosen it. It does not tlook that corroded, either, but regardless, it's stuck.

I've tried the penetrating oil and vibrating the thng using the engraving tool, but it simply will not loosen with a normal-length 8mm closed-end wrench (which is pretty short).

Short of putting a longer wrench on it and risking breaking the stem - I'm just about out of ideas.

I'd really like to loosen it without breaking it.

I'm now at the last resort of possibly heating the thing with a small propane torch.

Does anyone know if there is a rubber seal or O-ring in that valve mechanism, or is it all metal?

It sticks out a fair distance from the wheel cylinder, so can I momentarily heat it up to red hot without boiling the hydraulic fluid inside the cylinder?

Thanks for any advice.

 

take the small wrench and start turning it.. apply pressure and be sure to leave the end of the wrench exposed... then take a small hammer and lightly tap on the end of the wrent that's not on the bleeder valve... seems to work for me...

 

After trying everything I could think of - from heat, to banging with an engraver and banging with a hammer on the end of the wrench - nothing would loosen that bleeder valve. So in desperation I finally bought a small, cheap, relatively weak (20 ft-lb), 240 rpm, 1/4"-drive pneumatic ratchet.

I set the upper cut-off pressure on our single cylinder compressor at 90 psi and tried holding the socket in my hand to see how much force the wrench could exert. It's a fairly powerful little tool and banged away quite nicely as I squeezed the socket and held the ratchet fairly loosely in my hand.

I put the pneumatic wrench with an 8mm socket on the bleeder valve and gave it a very short blast as I held the wrench loosely in my hand. Nice banging action when the tool is held very loosely and is allowed to flop around at will.

The wrench gave the little bleeder a very nice banging action and within just a few bursts, it finally loosened.

After tightening and loosening the bleeder a few times with a closed-end wrench, it was as good as new and my wife and I proceeded to bleed both back brakes.

The old fluid looked absolutely awful - dark brown with specks of debris. (I don't know why. It's been only about 8 years since it was last bled!)

I bled the entire contents of the brake-fluid reservoir through the first brake. Then I soaked up the last bit of fluid in reservoir with a paper towel. Even the fluid in the reservoir had darkened considerably. The new stuff was perfectly clear and colorless in comparison.

I then added brand new DOT 3 fluid to the reservoir and bled that same brake until the fluid ran clear.

Then we bled the other rear brake cylinder until it also ran nice and clear.

By this time we had run out of fluid, so tomorrow I'll pick up some more fluid and we will then do the front calipers.

My wife says the brake pedal rides a bit higher and firmer now and braking action is more responsive.

Good.

(Later edit - I just got back from taking a short trip in the car and, by golly, it stops very much better than it did before bleeding the rear. I was very surprised. Braking is now very controllable - even right up to "just about" locking the wheels, and the car no longer "nose-dives" when braking as much as it used to. I'm quite sure that by pushing just a bit harder on the pedal I could have indeed locked the wheels - something which was virtually impossible before. The bottom line is that the back shoes are actually rubbing on the drums now and the car stops so well that I no longer can justify to myself the time and expense of converting the rear to disc brakes. I love it when I realize that I don't have anything more to do to a car! To give us that new-car feel, maybe we'll splurge and get a nice new, scratch-free windshield.)

 

Doing some searching I found this thread and was curious what you finally decided. I have found that air impacts, even 3/4" air impacts are no sure thing. Problem is getting enough pressure and air delivery to realize the full torque capapcity of these beasts. I've tried both cheater pipes and air impacts, and settled on cheater bar w/ the Honda pulley restraint tool to hold the engine.

I can vouch that breakout torque is high. I used ~ 4-ft leverage w/ cheater pipe and although I'm not terribly strong, I'm sure I can get close to 150-200 lbs force on the cheater pipe. Even w/ this arrangement, I really had to pull w/ all my strength till finally the bolt released w/ a loud crack. I had earlier tried my cheap 1/2" air impact (probably < 400 ft-lbs breakout torque). It wasted 1/2 hour pounding away and waiting for air compressor to recharge reservoir before giving up.

I've decided that good tools and a lot of effort are the most reliable method.

This is a subject that never goes away completely as new DIY'rs address this problem.

Regards

 

As I said much earlier in this thread, last year a Honda tech removed the two front axlenuts on our car because I could not do it - even using a long extension, etc. That same tech also torqued those nuts back on the carafter I was done working on it.

Just a few days ago I replaced the brake rotors and I had to once again remove those nuts. Well, this time the nuts spun off in under three seconds with the Ridgid electric impact.

Whenour car was manufactured, I have no doubt whatsoever that those axle nuts weretightened close to 181 lb-ft, and I have no doubt that last year the Honda tech tightened it to the same. So why could I remove the nut so quickly this year and why did it take the Honda tech so long with his pneumanitc wrench and industrial-capacity compressor?

I do not believe that either the crank bolt or the axle nuts actually get tighter over time. That theory is contrary to bothlogic and physics.Thingsthat are tightened will, if anything,tend to get looser, not tighter, but, strangely,that does not at allmean to say that they will get easier for a person to remove.

Because ofmy experience, I'm nowthouroughly convinced that it is the mere passage of time (and the effect thatthe passage of time has on the meeting place ofthe fastener and the "fastenee") that is ofutmost importance. In short,there must bea chemical or mechanical reaction/interaction between the two surfacesthat occurs gradually overtime. (A friend of mine claims that there must be a superficial"intermingling" of the molecules ofsteelbetween the two.)

What this means practically is that if you were to todayremove the bolt that gave you so much trouble to remove in the recent past, I have no doubt that you could remove it by exerting on it a removal torque slightly above tightening torque. That's just what happened to me with those axle nuts a fewdays agothat had been tightened to spec.last year.

The great danger for the crank bolt in particular is that if ithas gotten really"stuck" in position, I believe it is quitepossible that a long lever may break the head of the boltoff before it loosens. So I really do think that removing the crank bolt should be doneby an impact wrench.

A relatively large, heavy, electric impact wrenchhas onebigadvantage over a pneumatic. It's highest torque is reached in just a few seconds, and it maintains that high torque for as long asits switch is heldin the "on" position.

As you well know, pneumatic impact wrenches require huge amounts of air at a specific pressureto operate at full torque capacity for any length of time. Even the system atour localHonda dealershipwas strained to provide enough air to the technician's wrench toremove one of our axle nuts.

Although this sounds crazy, it might be a good idea to loosen and tighten those particular fasteners once in a while just to make sure that they don't get "welded" into position as time passes - as a kind of periodic, perventivemaintenance, if you will. For the crank bolt, if one already has that "pulley holder", it would just take a couple of minutes to periodicallyloosen and re-torque the bolt. The axle nuts would be even easier.

 

Thanks, I should have read entire thread before posting, but this subject is of great interest to me. I agree that bolts seem to "tighten w/ age", but not sure about why. For this reason, I lubricate my crankshaft bolt w/ anti-sieze before torquing. Honda recommends oil, but obviously that doesn't seem to work.

Note, the engine turns in the direction of tightening the bolt, and explanation I've read is that crankshaft impulses due to power stroke of pistons allows tightening of the bolt by inertial restraint of bolt. I agree this explanation is difficult to believe, but the fact of the bolts tightening w/ age is indisputable.

While changing the timing belts on my daughter's 97 Acura 2.2CL, I could not break the crankshaft bolt w/ any tools I had at the time (crankshaft pulley restraint tool not yet purchased). I finally punted and went to a local mechanic who had done good work for me in the past. He tried his 1/2" and 3/4" air impacts supported by a high pressure shop air compressor and was unable to break the bolt. He then proceeded to install a breaker bar and socket on the bolt braced against rotation of the engine. I told him the engine turned the wrong direction to use the starter but he insisted on trying this method. When starter was engaged, the socket split and flew off. However, when the 3/4 air impact was tried again the bolt came loose immediately. I was never sure if that was his intent all along, but couldn't argue w/ result. Your theory of "cold welding" may have something!

Regards