I'm finished building my first amplified system, and the results are less than impressive. I'd appreciate any advice you can give on why this system has let me down. Let me describe my set up, and compare it to what I had in mind.

First, I had a 2001 Accord last year (2009) and I installed a Pioneer receiver (DEH-P7700mp) with Infinity Reference 6012si (6.5") speakers in the front doors and Infinity Kappa 692.7i (6x9") speakers in the rear deck. This system allowed me great freedom in setting the equalization levels, and the bass even made my side and rear view mirrors vibrate...all without external amplification or custom wiring and no distortion. The Pioneer deck was 22Wx4 RMS, and the equalizer settings gave me the deepest, fullest, and richest music I've ever had. I enjoy mostly rock music, but this system really made me a fan of hip hop because of its performance on the low end.

A few months ago, I got a new 2010 Accord LX (6 speaker system/no NAV), and I thought I could expand on my old system by adding external amplification. However, I wanted to keep the factory deck since it ties into the dash display screen. So I put together the following design:

Amplifier - Alpine MRP-F300 (50Wx4 RMS @ 4ohms)
Amp kit - Kicker 09 ZCK84 (8AWG - 50A fuse)
Sound processor - JL Cleansweep CL441dsp
Front components - Sony Xplod XS-GTX1620S (60W RMS, 4ohms)
Rear coaxials - Sony Xplod XS-GT1626A (40W RMS, 4ohms)
iPod Adapter - USA Spec (PA15-HON2)

My install went according to the following wiring diagram attached below. The diagram might be hard to read so let me explain it a bit.

First, I tried to separate the "power" side of the car from the "signal" side of the car. I mounted the amp on the back of the rear seat, and ran 8AWG power cable to the +batt terminal. I mounted the Cleansweep under the front passenger seat, and ran power and ground wires to the same terminals as the amp (to minimize noise per the Cleansweep manual). The remote turn on goes directly to the amp. Basically, the driver's side has all the power, ground, and remote wires, and the passenger side has all the RCA cables and speaker leads (16AWG).


Amplifier mounted on the back of the passenger seat.

Cleansweep Master Volume Control Mounted on the Dash.

In the center compartment, I connected the Cleansweep OEM speaker inputs to the harness wires leading to the back of the radio. Behind the radio, I used two Metra harnesses to connect all the non-speaker wires together.


Speaker leads going to the Cleansweep under the passenger seat and then connected to the Metra harnesses.

Metra harnesses installed behind the dash waiting to be plugged in.

From the amp, I ran the speaker wire to the four speaker locations. The rear was easy. The front crossovers were mounted in the cabin under the dash, and I ran two sets of speaker wires through each door boot (not easy) for the woofers and tweeters.

All connections were soldered and heat shrink wrapped except for the spade terminals on the amp and crossovers.

With all this complete, I expected to hear a symphony of music coming from all around me, but I'm getting flat music that doesn't live up to the last system I had. I don't know if the Cleansweep is overrated, if my speakers are lousy, if the factory deck is just too much to overcome (because of its lack of equalization), or if something in my install is wrong.

For the record, I double checked the phasing of all my speaker leads, and the polarity is correct. All positive and negative leads are aligned properly.

I spent about $850 for all the gear, wires, adapter rings, baffles, tubing, etc, so I'm very disappointed in the end result. Before I rip it apart and try new speakers, I'd appreciate any insight from your collective experiences.

Thanks!

 

Keep_Hope_Alive will provide MUCH better insight and information.

But, like most other things, one bottleneck in a system can ruin the whole thing. In your case, more than likely it is the factory radio. There is a reason why most people replace the standard headunit.

For BEST sound, you HAVE to be giving your speakers the required RMS. Sony Xplodes are nothing to get excited over, many people dislike the Xplod product lineup. I see you labeled the front as components, are they true components?

In my opinion, if you replace the headunit and amp the speakers to what the need, you'll be much more happy. Not to mention you came from a system that you were able to tune and adjust to your liking.

Good luck!

 

Thanks for the encouragement, 19Accord97. Originally, I wanted to upgrade the factory deck, but I was hesitant about losing the factory display. I read a lot of feedback praising the Cleansweep for factory signal processing, and I thought it would give me comparable results to an aftermarket receiver. I may be able to live with a blank display, however, if it means getting back the sound quality I'm used to.

As for the Sony components, they are true components with separate tweeters, woofers, and crossovers, but I agree that they are nothing to get excited about.

 

Well again, remember, I am no expert in audio, but have seen quite a few threads on audio.

On the previous generation Accord, you can install a separate Headunit in the lower cubby. Not familiar if you can do something similar with your gen of Accord, but if so, you would be able to keep the display.

Wait for t00fatt or Keep_Hope_Alive to give you some more feedback.

 

sorry for the delay, there was a log-in mishap.

first, bravo. thank you for the detailed description and diagram. well done with connections, use of two Metra harnesses, etc.

did you run the Cleansweep disc to calibrate the factory system? the cleansweep will flatten the system response from the factory head unit - removing factory equalization. this is good so that as volume is decreased, bass isn't removed.

my personal opinion is fairly negative of Xplod speakers. did you do any extensive listening in shops comparing speakers? what made you decide on the Xplod's? Have you heard them in other systems and liked them? I personally like Infinity Reference much more than Sony Xplod.

have you sealed the baffles for the front speakers against the door panel? the factory speakers are sealed against the door panel for midbass response without that seal, you won't get midbass from front doors due to cancellation through the holes in the door. i do this with some adhesive weatherstripping foam. i'll make a ring around the new driver on the baffle so it mates up with the grill on the door panel.

did you set the crossover on the amp? is the HPF on or set to FULL?

Don't worry about replacing the factory HU - that isn't an option anymore with integrated head units.

 

No apologies necessary...and thank you for your advice.

I did run the Cleansweep CD, and I have pressed the "Defeat EQ" button to make sure that it truly had an effect on the factory sound. It does make a considerable difference by leveling out the lows and highs.

As for the Xplods, I didn't hear them before buying them. I relied on Crutchfield reviews, and I thought the price was good and the RMS wasn't too far off from the 50W put out by the amp. I know that under-powering speakers isn't a good idea, but I thought a 10RMS difference wouldn't be too bad. I agree with you that the Reference series is better, and one of my next steps will be to switch them out.

You bring up a good point about the baffles. I tried to use full enclosure baffles to insulate the sound as well as protect from the elements behind the front doors, but they were a little too thick to install with the Scosche speaker adapter rings. So, I used a utility knife to trim down the thickness, and I may have lost the seal between the door.

Finally, the amplifier's HPF is turned on with the crossover frequencies set at about 65Hz on the front channels (75% gain) and about 70Hz on the rears (60% gain). The bass boost is also turned on.

One thing about the integrated HU...do you know which features would be deactivated in the car if I decided to upgrade it to aftermarket?

 

pretty sure you'd lose climate control if you remove the HU. i assume that's not something you want. some of the base models don't integrate the HU and the climate controls electrically, but do so in the dash trim. so then an expensive dash kit with climate control ***** integrated is required - but possible. so it depends on your specific HU.

i recently picked up Hybrid Audio Technologies - Imagine I62-1 for an install i'm doing. they are a convertible coaxial/component. the sound is AMAZING. for $200 you won't find anything even close to the sound quality.

if you're not running subs, you don't need to high pass the speakers. you want them to play full range. if you do add a sub, then utilize the HPF.

 

I wanted to update everyone on some improvements I made recently to the rear deck speakers. I had some old Infinity Reference 6012si speakers (6.5" - 2 way coaxials - 50W RMS) lying around, so I decided to give them a try.

UPDATE: I decided to upgrade to new rear deck speakers. I bought a pair of Infinity 6032i 2-ways (60W RMS & 2 Ohms).

First, I removed the Sony Xplod speakers and the baffles from the rear deck. Next, I ran a length of foam weatherstripping (3/4" wide x 3/16" thick) around the rear deck speaker frame.

UPDATE: The weatherstripping was clumsy and I found it hard to install the speaker adapter rings. I took it off the speaker frame and added some thinner foam to the back of the adapters. With the baffles installed it looked something like this:




Then I installed the Infinity speakers in the Scosche adapter rings, and I ran some more foam in between them, as well. For this foam, however, I used the thin, black foam that came on the factory speaker assembly.

Finally, I cut a length of the 3/16" weatherstripping in half, the long way, and ran it around the top of the speaker adapter ring. (I did this because the stock grills have a built in plastic ring that seals around the top of the speaker.) Pictures to follow...

UPDATE: With the new baffle insulation, the top weatherstripping was unnecessary so I took it off.

I plugged the speakers back in, turned off the HPF and adjusted the gain settings on the amp, and...voila! The sound was SO MUCH BETTER! I actually smiled on my way to work this morning!

UPDATE: The extra power in the 6032i co-axial speakers is amazing. My amp is rated at 50W RMS @ 4 Ohms and 75W RMS @ 2 Ohms, so these speakers really kick it.

I don't know if it was the weatherstripping or the speakers or a little of both, but the sonic balance is so much better. I used to feel like my right ear was occassionally going deaf with the old set up, but now everything is in balance. Also, the bass is really stronger, and the mid-range is coming through much more clearly. Overall, this is a huge improvement.

UPDATE: The sound cancellation in my first install attempt was very evident once I properly insulated the speakers and door panels. It's truly amazing, and I feel so much better that my original design was correct...I just needed some help on the implementation. Thanks KeepHopeAlive!

Next, I'm going to fix up the front doors with weatherstripping, and hope for a similar improvement. If it works, I may keep the Xplod components up front, but the Infinity 6030cs components are on my radar.

UPDATE: Since I've come this far, I decided to pick up some Infinity 6030cs Components, and repeat the install that I did with the rear deck. I can't say enough about the difference. These components are rated at 90W RMS, but they're only getting 75W RMS from my amp. Nevertheless, they sound great. I can barely tell the difference between my system now and the aftermarket set up in my old car. I'm totally pumped up that I amp'd my first car, and it actually sounds good! This forum was a great help.

 

Will this help in addition to already having the door sealed up? Or does this only simply isolate the front and rear waves in a stock door frame setup? I already have my doors sealed up, but could use a slight midbass boost. I may give this a shot, seems like it can only help.

 

sealing around the baffle will always help.

there are two forms of cancellation

1. rear speaker wave through door/deck holes combines and cancels with the front wave. sealing the door (as best as you can) can help reduce this cancellation, but also serves to create a better enclosure for the speaker.

2. front wave travels between door and door panel, reflects back, then combines and cancels with front wave through opening. sealing around the opening reduces or eliminates this cancellation.

you want to control all paths for sound - direct, reflected, and back wave. anyone notice how some factory systems seem to have a lot of midbass compared to aftermarket? it's all about the seal to the door.


i'm glad another has been helped by the benefits of foam. (and it's such a cheap fix!)

the main benefit will be with bass and midbass response. treble will be mostly unaffected. midrange can also improve - should be more balanced due to the elimination of cancellation.