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03 Accord EX 2.4 5MT mmobilizer issue derailed-crank no start.

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  #1  
Old 03-04-2018, 05:42 AM
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Default 03 Accord EX 2.4 5MT Immobilizer issue detailed-crank no start.

Hello! I have a 2003 Honda Accord EX k24a4 5MT sedan.

I’m having this issue with my immobilizer (and possibly my ECU). I’ll give the story in detail, then list the symptoms. Here’s the story:

The car started overheating one very cold winter night so I turned it off. A few minutes later, I saw coolant had leaked on the passenger floor and realized the heater core needed to be replaced, so I repaired it myself over an 8-day period. Once everything was back up, I attempted to start the car with a now drained battery; decided to get a whole new battery to start it once more and was greeted by a constant flashing immobilizer key signal.

Left the car for about 24hrs, came back, tried again and it started fine and worked optimally for about 2 days. On the 3rd day, it was back to the immobilizer issue and has been that way for about 2-3 weeks (and counting) ever since.

Recently, I realized since coolant leaked from the heater core, I should take a look at the ECU itself...discovered coolant pouring from around the connector pin housing. Inside smelled like coolant
and there was what looked like a blue buildup, most likely semi-dried, but where the pins are situated was dry.

On the board itself, there were no signs of short-circuitry, or intense corrosion for that matter, just a yellow substance that appears to be adhesive of some sort or early corrosion (which really doesn’t seem to be the case.) I went over the entire board with 70% isopropyl alcohol and q-tips, then allowed it to evaporate and air dry. Reconnected everything, but it’s all still the same.

Here’s a list of the symptoms the car has:

• Crank, no start
• Constant, flashing immobilizer and low pressure oil indicators
• None of the OBD2 Diagnostic tools Ive tried can communicate with the ECU
• I’ve checked all fuses and rechecked all connectors.(Remember it did work fine for 2 days)
• Key Fob works as it should (locks, unlocks, etc)

Car is as stock as it was April 2003, has absolutely nothing aftermarket installed, no remote start, no foreign wiring, nothing.

Not going to tow to a stealership. It took hell just for them to give me the immobilizer bypass brake code even with proof of ownership.(This did not work for me by the way.)

All your advice, scheming, teasing, hazing and jokes are welcome! “pls help.
 

Last edited by Jaccord; 03-09-2018 at 01:03 PM. Reason: Typos
  #2  
Old 03-04-2018, 09:09 AM
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The coolant leak plus the non-communication with the ECU is pointing towards an ECU problem. It could be the ECU or the wiring.

I'd recommend purchasing the shop manual. You can get the pdf from automanualsource.com for ~$22 and it is worth the investment.

There are 2 ways to approach the problem. You can try some voltage/ground testing on the connection where you plug in your scan tool. Or get an identical ECU from a u-pull-it yard, install and see if you get communication with your scan tool.

For the ECU swap, the part number must be compatible with your accord. Look up the OEM part number on a site like hondapartsnow.com. For your car, it looks like the 03-04 sedan/coupe with a manual transmission and an EX (EX, EXL, etc) trim use the same part number. If you get communication, you will still need to get the keys programmed and possibly ECU updated at a dealer (or maybe your scan tool can handle the key programming).

For wiring testing, see pinout below. Pin 16 to a good ground should have 12V. Pin 16 to pin 4 should also have 12V (pin 4 is a ground). Pin 7 should be an open circuit to ground (use resistance or continuity setting on your volt meter to measure).

 
  #3  
Old 03-04-2018, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by PAhonda
The coolant leak plus the non-communication with the ECU is pointing towards an ECU problem. It could be the ECU or the wiring.

I'd recommend purchasing the shop manual. You can get the pdf from automanualsource.com for ~$22 and it is worth the investment.

There are 2 ways to approach the problem. You can try some voltage/ground testing on the connection where you plug in your scan tool. Or get an identical ECU from a u-pull-it yard, install and see if you get communication with your scan tool.

For the ECU swap, the part number must be compatible with your accord. Look up the OEM part number on a site like hondapartsnow.com. For your car, it looks like the 03-04 sedan/coupe with a manual transmission and an EX (EX, EXL, etc) trim use the same part number. If you get communication, you will still need to get the keys programmed and possibly ECU updated at a dealer (or maybe your scan tool can handle the key programming).

For wiring testing, see pinout below. Pin 16 to a good ground should have 12V. Pin 16 to pin 4 should also have 12V (pin 4 is a ground). Pin 7 should be an open circuit to ground (use resistance or continuity setting on your volt meter to measure).

Hello, thank you so much for your reply. I will try your suggestions ASAP. I do have the service manual if that’s what you’re referring to. I’ve also done the “preliminary” testing it recommended sans those that require the HDS. Also when I said no communication with the ECU; all the diagnostic tools do indeed get power, they turn on without the key in ignition. What’s I’m trying to say is they will display error codes stating linking errors or unable to establish communication with the ECU, so on and so forth(At this point I do have he key in ignition and to the ON position). I have some pictures of the board when I was cleaning it that I should’ve put in the Original post that I’ll attach. Prior to cleaning. I got all of this off before reassembling
There was a slight blue film that came off of the q-tips all across the board but this was the most concentrated area
Inside the white housing where the pins are had 0 coolant, dirt or anything for that matter

 

Last edited by Jaccord; 03-09-2018 at 10:29 AM. Reason: Typos
  #4  
Old 03-04-2018, 02:12 PM
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If you get another ECU as PA suggested, try and get the key with it.
Do that might save you a trip to the dealership for reprogramming of the ECU.
I only mention it, as the chip in the key is coded to the ECU, and only the dealership can re-program it.
 
  #5  
Old 03-04-2018, 06:24 PM
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All that green stuff is corrosion caused by the coolant.

It looks like the pins for the ECU wire harness got hit the worst (2nd to last picture).

If you remove the solder off the green connections and resolder, you might be able to save the PCM. I'd resolder pins 1,2, 10-13, and 22-26 (where the q-tip is at on the 2nd picture).

I can't tell how bad the pins are on the other end of the 2nd picture, but they look discolored too.

There may be other damage on the board that you can't see.
 

Last edited by PAhonda; 03-05-2018 at 08:54 PM.
  #6  
Old 03-04-2018, 11:31 PM
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Here is some info. regarding the terminals with corrosion of ECM/PCM Connector E. The Service Check Input (SCS) from the Data Link Connector (DLC; aka OBD port), Write Enable Input from the DLC, and the Immobilzer Code Input terminals are part of those.
 
Attached Thumbnails 03 Accord EX 2.4 5MT mmobilizer issue derailed-crank no start.-connector-e-terminals.jpg  
  #7  
Old 03-09-2018, 04:50 AM
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Originally Posted by redbull-1
Here is some info. regarding the terminals with corrosion of ECM/PCM Connector E. The Service Check Input (SCS) from the Data Link Connector (DLC; aka OBD port), Write Enable Input from the DLC, and the Immobilzer Code Input terminals are part of those.
Thank you for this. Much appeciated. I’ve ordered another ECU. Should be here shortly.
 
  #8  
Old 03-09-2018, 04:56 AM
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Originally Posted by The Toecutter
If you get another ECU as PA suggested, try and get the key with it.
Do that might save you a trip to the dealership for reprogramming of the ECU.
I only mention it, as the chip in the key is coded to the ECU, and only the dealership can re-program it.
This may come across as a silly question, but are the lock cylinders the same on these cars? Putting aside the VIN-specific immobilizer codes, will the key of another 03-07 accord fit and operate my lock cylinder?
When the new ECU arrives, if there is connection. The next step would be to program my current key however I’ve only had one key. I’d like to possibly just get another key from a junked accord and have it programmed at the same time if the lock cylinder and cut of the key is the same.
 
  #9  
Old 03-09-2018, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by PAhonda
All that green stuff is corrosion caused by the coolant.

It looks like the pins for the ECU wire harness got hit the worst (2nd to last picture).

If you remove the solder off the green connections and resolder, you might be able to save the PCM. I'd resolder pins 1,2, 10-13, and 22-26 (where the q-tip is at on the 2nd picture).

I can't tell how bad the pins are on the other end of the 2nd picture, but they look discolored too.

There may be other damage on the board that you can't see.
Thanks. I was just thinking it was residue, once I cleaned it off it, looked just fine, but guess I was too optimistic, thanks for your insight. I will update the post with the final solution.
 
  #10  
Old 03-09-2018, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Jaccord


This may come across as a silly question, but are the lock cylinders the same on these cars? Putting aside the VIN-specific immobilizer codes, will the key of another 03-07 accord fit and operate my lock cylinder?
When the new ECU arrives, if there is connection. The next step would be to program my current key however I’ve only had one key. I’d like to possibly just get another key from a junked accord and have it programmed at the same time if the lock cylinder and cut of the key is the same.
You might want to talk to the parts guy at the dealership. I only say that, as we (my wife) took her car (2000 Accord) to the dealer and had a 2nd key made. They re-programmed both the new key (cut to the VIN tag) and programmed it and the old key to the existing ECU. The cost for the new programmed and cut key was 70 bucks. They need both the car and the old key to do any programming, and it's best if you want a 2nd key to have it done at that time, since they're already doing some programing.
 


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