ALL 2005 ACCORD V6 OWNERS SHOULD READ THIS CLOSELY

LIGHTSHOW and OTHERS you do NOT have a tranny problem! You have a standard case of Honda ignoring their customers to the fullest extent. I too have a 2005 Honda Accord and experience the same problem, along with a few others which I will mention later. Open loop programming is the problem. This is a major problem because you have to go deep into your wallet and aftermarket parts in order to correct the issue yourself.

2005 Accord V6 owners should imediately write to Honda customer service and your applicable Attorney general because it is my opinion that this issue will be a direct reflection on the longivity of your Accord.

I am an X mechanic with 10 years in the business and though I've been out for some time, I do know what I'm talking about.

Here goes:

COLD- Defined as coolant temperature, Vehicle has been off for roughly 3 hours, in cold regions this can be greatly reduced. The colder the outside air temperature the worse the condition and longer the duration.

PROBLEM DESCRIPTION- Lean misfire. Open loop programming is to lean (High Air/Fuel Ratio). Too little fuel being delivered to the engine at cold outside temperature in order to run properly. The colder it is outside the more fuel required to meet the demand, which is why colder regions would see this issue more.

OPEN LOOP PROGRAMMING- Preset parameters used in cold operation. Once coolant temperature reaches a set temperature the vehicle enters CLOSED LOOP PROGRAMMING in which it adjusts to reality.

DUPLICATION- This misfire can be directly identified by starting your car and driving slowly until 20mph when the car shifts into 3rd gear, ease off the throttle and slowly re-apply. You will find that the engine progressively begins to misfire until the point it quits. You can back out and find that there is a throttle position range in which the issue is found to be worse. This range is a very average driving range in which makes this issue even more severe. 3rd gear isn't a must to notice the condition but definitely brings out the worse. The car naturally shifts into 3rd at 20mph under very light acceleration anyway. Issue is contained in the TPS range and is generally not limited by speed with the exception that you are usually a little deeper in the throttle on higher paced roads.

Honda's first attempt to fix my problem- Honda has not seen anything like this, but the IDLE LEARN procedure was done incorrectly. Corrected.
RESULT- NO CHANGE

Honda's second attempt to fix my problem- Next day. Honda has had ton's of complaints about this issue and it is FUEL CONDITION related. Amazingly they also have the solution! I disagreed to every extent but allowed them the opportunity to prove me wrong. Fuel drained, replenished and trunk ruined (It's ok to drain fuel from the trunk without any precatious measures right!! A complete novel of it's own.)
RESULT- NO CHANGE

Honda's third attempt to fix my problem- Cannot duplicate
RESULT- NEW DEALER REQUIRED as current wouldn't attempt to diagnose further after they had to strip, repaint and benzene test the car just to ensure safe caustic levels of fuel were'nt still present after the 31 days they had it.

Honda's fourth attempt to fix my problem- New dealer! Test drove and collected all necessary scanner data to supply to Honda tech support (was also done at the 1st attempt above). Dealer mechanic and service writer agreed the issue was not normal and should be addressed. Before leaving I notified them that I would like to drive another new 05 V6 to prove what I though was to be a common issue and not directly related to my car only.
RESULT- New 05 V6 on the lot has the same issue as expected. I was told that they would continue to work the issue with Honda Tech support in order to bring resolve and they had 3 cars to work with so mine wasn't necessary. I took my car and awaited the results.
UPDATED RESULTS- This is a DESIGN FEATURE of your car. Yes they said FEATURE. They were still looking into other options in order to gain some clout.
UPDATED RESULTS- Dealer stated that he felt like and @#$#@ having to tell me that Honda would like to recall their statement and instead call it a DESIGN CHARACTERISTIC. Honda is not willing to persue the issue any further.

REQUEST ISSUED TO HONDA CUSTOMER SERVICE- Define the DESIGN CHARACTERISTIC OF MY CAR IN HONDA TERMS, as I have seemingly had to put the words in Honda's mouths with agreement but no admittance of failure. NO RETURN FROM HONDA

WE ALL NEED TO HELP PUSH THIS ISSUE IN ORDER FOR HONDA TO BRING US A NEW TUNING CODE FOR OUR ACCORDS.

This issue is not completely limited to OPEN loop programming as some detonation/misfire is also observed during CLOSED loop operation.

05 V6 Vehicles also exhibit a rough idle after a highway jaunt (sitting at the offramp stoplight). This would also be a programming issue.

Detonation is one of the most damaging issues an engine could experience under normal driving conditions and should be prevented at all costs. Honda has made sure to write their software to ignore the misfires as you will not see them show up on a Honda scanner(My opinion based on actual use of a Honda scanner HDS). This is a very deceptive practive and should be made aware to the public.

Please write your Honda customer service and attorney general ASAP so that we can all benefit before it's too late.

You may also write me with all pertinent info :
Name, e-mail, VIN #, etc. I will forward (NAMELESS) with my continual letters to HONDA. Please make note if you do not experience this issue so that I do not forward useless VIN #'s in case there was a break in programming code that Honda has not stated.

NEXT Car is a TOYOTA no question!

 

hey dont give up on honda just yet. every car company needs to asses the severity of every issue before its takes action. this is obviously a problem that honda will take of, it may just take a little time. be patient with them, honda wants your car to last a very long time. once you get the bugs smoothed out your going to love your car.


lightshow

 

Thanks TYTALEX... I am indeed having a slip/shutter just as the car shifts into 3rd gear (I started the '05 Transmission Problems' thread'). I assumed it was a transmission problem as this is what it feels like when I am driving it. Are you in fact saying this may not be the case??? It happens 90% of the time when taking off in the morning, but could NOT duplicate the problem when I went for a test drive at the dealer (Dealer claimed it had been sitting for 5 hours on the lot). I will try the 20 MPH 3rd gear deceleration/acceleration as you suggested. Any other suggestions/comments to get this to happen "on command" so I can show the dealer?
Do you have any other documentation you can direct me to that I may present to the dealer? Is ther any type of related service bulletin? I am taking my car back in again this weekend so they can have it the entire week while I am out of the country. Hope they can resolve the issue, but doubtful.
Other than this my wife and I really like the car as a day to day work cruiser.

Any additional information you can provide is appreciated.
BTW.. I thought about printing out your thread, but some dealers frown upon customers doing their own research and confronting them w/ it....

 

Nitro1968 I have no problem with you printing my thread out, just keep in mind that even if a dealer can duplicate the issue but the MFG isn't willing to do anything about it they will try to walk away from it (understandable). The issue is surely fuel management and you can prove out your tranny by letting the car idle for 15 minutes prior to driving and note the issue doesn't rear its head. The reason that you seem to see it after the tranny upshifts is because of the additional load on the engine at low throttle input. Remember that the colder it is outside the worse the issue is.

You and all of us 05' V6 owners would benefit most by stating your case in writting to Honda, but make sure that your dealer has sent the HDS snapshots of the test drive to Honda Tech support and request the ID # of that case. By leaving the car with the dealer you are asking for more frustration and less interest from the dealer as the MFG is not supportive to the situation. Honda knows about the issue and already likes to call it a CHARACTERISTIC. A characteristic of this nature should have never left the dealer and issues like this are handled by all MFG's yearly. A PCM update doesn't seem to be an unreasonable request to make my car run properly.

Keep in mind that Honda Coorperate stated my issue was fuel condition initially and then stated that it was really a characteristic they knew about but weren't going to address. Better stated this was a characteristic and by not admitting they cover it up with software (again my informed opinion) they surely weren't going to propose a solution.

 

Hey TYTALEX,
Does the problem only occur on 2005's? Has Honda Corp. said anything about other years? I would like to help address this issue to Honda but to make it more "personal" I want to know if the same problem occurs for the 2006 model year, which i have. I have not experienced this problem, maybe due to the fact that i live in california where the temperature is almost always 70 degress

thanks

atwood

 

You would need to identify that for yourself. I haven't driven an 04 or 06 to test. Follow the procedure that I outlined and let us know what you find. The colder the better chance for clear duplication.

 

My 05' Accord is back into the dealership for the misfire problem. I was finally able to duplicate the problem with a Honda employee in the car with me. The misfire took place in between all shift point, but could be felt the most between 2nd and 3rd.
Are there any updates, or fixes to this problem? Any suggestions on my next course of action? Bottom line is I want this resloved for a number of reasons, but mostly I do not want it to cause additional problems in the future. Is American Honda aware of the problem and if so how should I reference it if I were to contact them?

BTW: My dealership has been great to work with..

Any freedback is appreciated.

 

I don't have an 05 accord but if it's a fuel delivery issue then perhaps a new chip? I'm just throwing out ideas and I have only my own personal back yard mechanic experience.... But in my twisted little mind if it's a fuel delivery issue and you put a performance chip in their which controls the fuel/timing wouldn't that "fix" the issue or does it run deaper than that?

 

I am not 100% sure what the issue is and I personally do not want to sink any money into it, or do anything to give Honda an excuse to void my warranty. I am hoping the dealership can pinpoint the issue since they now know I am not crazy
It may very well be a chip and/or ECU problem? Hope they can determine one way, or another.

 

Anyone else having this problem, or have any updates... I have had my car back to the dealer again since my last post, with no improvement. This time they flushed the fuel system and reset the valves, but no luck.
What is my next step if this problem can not be fixed????