General Tech Help Good at troubleshooting? Have a non specific issue? Discuss general tech topics here.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

'11 rear brake broke - caliper not frozen, outer new pad shot to metal - why?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
  #11  
Old 08-30-2017, 08:14 AM
rjaccord's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: greater Boston
Posts: 94
Default

Looking at that picture... There definitely was no grommet on either pin when I removed them. The pin ends were bare. I know this because I 'borrowed' some of the grease that had migrated to the end of the pin there and re-lubed the sides better with it.
I will have to remove it again and shine a light down there.

As I've said, since it's quite obvious careless incompetent people had their hands all over this car - particularly the brake system - and they were very recently done, I would be pretty sure that part is missing or was carelessly stuffed back into the hole the wrong way. If it's missing, do you think I can get a part for it, and / or is it pretty critical to have that grommet in there? Is it rubber?
 
  #12  
Old 08-30-2017, 09:39 AM
rjaccord's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: greater Boston
Posts: 94
Default

Studying this more... I found a great diagram that matches this for a 2000 Civic SI.
I also found this part which is not on the '11 diagram list of parts is a 'bush' or bushing.
It is placed on top of the caliper position to minimize vibration - that's it's purpose.

I also saw a picture - it shows one of the pins with a cut down detent for this bush to slide into at the end of the caliper slide pin.
I only noticed clean contours on both pins, so it was likely always there just smeared in lube grease so I didn't notice it was a rubber part at the end there.
Still, I will go verify it now, and that the pin with bush at the end is in the upper position of the caliper slide bracket.
 
Attached Thumbnails '11 rear brake broke - caliper not frozen, outer new pad shot to metal - why?-hondavsacura-2000civicsi-caliper-diagram.jpg  

Last edited by rjaccord; 08-30-2017 at 09:41 AM.
  #13  
Old 08-30-2017, 09:57 AM
rjaccord's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: greater Boston
Posts: 94
Default

Just checked. The 'bush' was on the end of that pin, and it was installed in the upper spot on the bracket. The bush was flush with the pin, not swollen at all.

I have Amalie "All purpose with Moly Grease Li-2M NLGI No. 2" here.
Description on tube:
"Lithium 12 Hydoxystearate soap thickened extreme pressure grease containing Molybdenum Disulfide and Micro Polyethlene Fillers. Meets Ford M-C75-B spec and is all all purpose chassis and wheel bearing lubricant"

When I got my place, there were about 6 of these brand new tubes in the basement.

and from Amalie website:
"Amalie Pro Tac Plus Grease with Moly is a lithium complex grease fortified with molybdenum disulfide that meets Caterpillar’s most stringent “moly” performance requirements. This robust grease prevents metal-on-metal contact under very high-shock loading conditions commonly found in agricultural and construction environments. Applicable in a variety of automotive and industrial uses requiring extreme pressure protection, oxidation inhibition, water resistance, and anti-rust properties, including; disc brakes, wheel bearings, chassis, ball-joints, 5th wheels and others. Amalie Pro Tac Plus Grease is formulated with advanced chemistry to satisfy the stringent performance needs of heavy-duty equipment builders such as Caterpillar,Detroit Diesel/MTU, Kubota, and others."

Looks like it might be acceptable for brake use.
 

Last edited by rjaccord; 08-30-2017 at 10:00 AM.
  #14  
Old 08-30-2017, 10:49 AM
JimBlake's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 18,398
Default

I never had a 2011 so my information is kinda general from a few other Hondas...

That "bushing" on the end of the slide pin is rubber and it fits just like you described. It had occurred to me that if it popped off of the slide pin then it would prevent the slide pin from going far-enough into the hole; & that in turn would cause the outboard pad to drag.
 
  #15  
Old 08-30-2017, 11:17 AM
rjaccord's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: greater Boston
Posts: 94
Default

It was a very good thought. I was hopeful it was something simple like that.
I can only guess somehow the pins weren't sliding well in the bracket chromed pad clips.
I'll likely reinstall new pads and rotor tomorrow and test drive it while I wait for the piston dust boot rubber part to show up.
 
  #16  
Old 08-31-2017, 09:46 AM
rjaccord's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: greater Boston
Posts: 94
Default

I got the boot part in one day!

I just checked my brake fluid reservoir. Says DOT 3 or DOT 4 fluid. Wonderful.
I have no idea what's in there.
And I am 99% I'm going to wind up removing my brake piston in order to install this dust boot. Looks like mission impossible otherwise.
So I will lose all that fluid.
I have some DOT 3 on hand I just opened and used 1 month ago. I am now planning to add that back to system.

I read here that DOT 3 and DOT 4 can be mixed if need be esp. with smaller amounts.
True? I think pretty soon I will change out all the fluid as I have no idea when it was done last (although it does look perfectly clean and nice clear color).
 
  #17  
Old 08-31-2017, 10:52 AM
rjaccord's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: greater Boston
Posts: 94
Default

What a piece of f*cking Sh&t this repair is.

The Dorman #D352105 which "Fits" my car I got thru the local Napa here as #2105.

There is no way this is the correct fitting part. It's at least 1/2" to 3/4" + or more less wide diameter than what was in there.
And you might think - oh nice, it will be snug and stretch. No. This also means that the outer lip will never fit into the caliper housing detent there.
It's the wrong size. It will not seat in that spot in the caliper housing because it's nowhere near the required width. Stretching the hell out of it to near breaking I can get it around the piston. And then screwing the piston back in it just moves forward and never seats. It never will. I made a 'Tyson trick' expander out of a spray can top and had that on hand. It will not work for this undersized part.

On top of that, the piston itself looks like someone took a hammer claw to the outer edge of it. It was completely mashed in and had a raised metal ridge / barb on it. I had to gently metal file down the raised metal there. Because it's at the end of the piston where the detent is for the dust boot I think it might be ok, and never recess deep enough to touch the inside brake fluid seal. This caliper was not leaking any fluid so far even with the damaged piston surface.

ALSO, that (brake fluid inner) seal is also clearly too small. Maybe in this case it would swell up enough, but the only way it could go in is it would have to be around the piston itself. It's far too small to fill in the recess in the caliper and 20% of it would be hanging in the way and the piston itself would just knock it right out as it goes back.

So I'm basically screwed on this. My only ride just left, so I'm stuck far from any city to get real parts. wtf??
 

Last edited by rjaccord; 08-31-2017 at 11:04 AM.
  #18  
Old 08-31-2017, 11:03 AM
JimBlake's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 18,398
Default

DOT3 & DOT4 can be mixed. I've never heard the "small amounts" business. DOT4 has higher boiling points but I guess not needed for your car.

I don't know what to tell you about the wrong part. I don't know enough about Napa vs. Dorman part numbers.
 
  #19  
Old 08-31-2017, 11:07 AM
rjaccord's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: greater Boston
Posts: 94
Default

Aside from the obvious meathead monkey 'mechanic' damage done to the piston, the sides were clean and now super squeaky clean after cleaning it with a rag and then brak Kleen.
 
  #20  
Old 08-31-2017, 11:08 AM
rjaccord's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: greater Boston
Posts: 94
Default

I either sit around for days or a week with no car, or maybe assemble it all together with no dust boot and run it. I am really pissed about this.
Should be an easy straight forward job. I've never worked on any car where it's so obvious a team of complete idiots worked on it and did such a **** poor job.

I've maybe done I don't know 20-30 brake jobs. I just did a complete, everything, job on my cousin's Tacoma (rotors, pads, calipers). Super easy.
I've done full rebuild jobs on motorcycles. I've done a custom Honda Nissin brake mod into my Kawasaki. To deal with garbage like this... is so irritating.

And also, what say you readers? Should I cut my losses and dump this car and run? I'm getting fed up with the mickey mouse crap.
And I went from a '95 Integra and jumped to a '04 TSX and now a '11 Honda for 'more reliability'.
 

Last edited by rjaccord; 08-31-2017 at 11:12 AM.


Quick Reply: '11 rear brake broke - caliper not frozen, outer new pad shot to metal - why?



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:20 AM.