92 Accord LX Chokes/Dies Under Load
 

I have been driving this car for a couple years now and it's been very reliable. She's got around 220k miles on her (she's a manual tranny btw) and I was certain issues were due to appear and they most certainly did. First I had the random no start which long story short, turned out to be the Master Fuel Relay. I purchased a new one and now she starts every time. Cool.

During the time I was waiting for the new relay to appear in my mailbox, I had ordered a new fuel pump and installed it before the new relay. Once I got the car running after installing the new relay, I noticed a random tendency to very slightly try to choke under acceleration from a stop. I figured something may have come loose in the fuel lines or something that just needed to work itself out.

Drove it to work the next day (I work 40 miles away from home) and on the way back she started trying to choke any time I would accelerate after decelerating. (I'm going 70 and slow down to 65 and then try to get back to 70 again.) It would clear up if I tapped on the throttle again a few times and accelerate and hold speed fine from there. Once I got off the freeway, you get to a stop light and that's where it really tries to die. Low idle while sitting at a red and tries to choke during acceleration. After the initial period of trying to die, it would clear up and then would drive fine. Until I make it to the next stop.

I made it home and let her sit. Time to diagnose. I did a very basic check for spark by pulling a wire from each plug while the engine was running. All cylinders were firing fine. I also pulled the plug from each injector and all injectors seem to be spraying fine.

A couple days later I was trying to show the choke problem to my friend and it died while backing out of the driveway from a cold start. Wouldn't start for about 5ish minutes. Then it did and I pulled back into my driveway.
I can start her every time, no problem. I can accelerate in neutral as much as I want no problem. When the RPMs fall back to idle, it tend to be a low idle for a couple minutes then she idles normally. (No hunting idle symptoms). (Also, if I lightly tap the accelerator the engine will stumble.)

I have changed the fuel filter as well.
I know that I need to check the fuel pressure, but it seems that a normal gauge won't fit or something? I have been looking for a good adapter but to be honest I am not certain what type I am looking for.

I know that my EGR ports are likely clogged so my intention is to pull the intake and clean it rather than drill through the plugs. While it is out, I will also clean the throttle body, IACV, and other nearby parts as needed.

CODES. Ya, no codes. Ever. So no help there. I did check to see if my ECU was working by pulling the plug to my O2 sensor and the check engine light does come on. However when I try to check my stored codes, the light doesn't blink, it just stays on.

I do have the service manual that seems to be floating around online but for whatever reason, it's missing many pages.

I have tried to give as much detail as possible to diagnose this issue, please excuse the randomness and lack of detail in certain regards as I am not an expert mechanic. I can do plenty of work on vehicles but my realm is not primarily cars. I have tried to lurk as much as possible to see what I can find to diagnose my issue and thus far most of the threads related to this issue have no resolution. I INTEND TO RESOLVE THIS AND POST THE RELEVANT INFORMATION HERE TO HELP OTHERS OUT. It seems the choking issue I am experiencing seems to be fairly common on these vehicles. I really like this car, it has treated me well.

SO FIRST THING IS FIRST: I need to check fuel pressure. I don't have a gauge, I don't want to drill out anything. I need the appropriate adapter and gauge. Inexpensive suggestions please? Any ideas where I should go from here? Thank in advance guys. I have learned a LOT already from this forum. =)

"However when I try to check my stored codes, the light doesn't blink, it just stays on."

Above statement suggests the ECM may be at fault. CEL on steady when checking for codes means car is in Limp Home mode. This can indicate a faulty ECM.

good luck

Is there any way to test it short of swapping it out with another ECM?

Only way I know is to swap in a known good ECM. Note, used ECM's are readily available from ebay and car-part.com for <$50.

Try resetting ECU by pulling BackUp fuse in under hood fuse box for 20 secs. Check for any returning codes or same steady CEL.

good luck

I did as you suggested and solid check engine light is solid. Did it a couple times actually. I tried to look up information on this situation code wise and came up with very little. I did manage to find one that said: "A solid check engine light (with service check connector jumpered) is for an internal rom reading error within the ECU. If you receive a solid check engine light on a stock/unchipped factory ECU, then the internal processor is most likely bad and the entire ECU should be replaced." For clarification, is this correct in general and is this what would be referred to as "code 0"?

If there's no codes, no error, and the check-engine light does NOT light up when the engine is running; then the CEL will stay lit solid when the SCS connector is jumpered.

The indication of a bad ECU is when the check-engine light DOES come on when running; and then when you jumper the SCS connector the CEL stays on solid.

Ok so then my ECM is good then. Where should I go from here? I want to check fuel pressure but I don't have a gauge. Any suggestions?

I don't know if that absolutely proves your ECU is good. I was just explaining the normal behavior of a good ECU because I thought that your CEL was not lighting up when you just run the car.

I don't know if gauges are available as loaner tools? If so, you'd still have to figure out how to connect it into your fuel line upstream of the FPR.

When I first put the key in the on position the CEL light comes on for two seconds. Pump goes on and off as it should with the light. Otherwise the CEL light hasn't turned on during any of the abnormal driving situations. The CEL light is solid if I plug in the jumper. That is all so far.

Now as for a fuel pressure gauge, I see there are adapters that connect to the fuel filter but I'm not certain whether that's what I'm looking for or not. I can purchase the gauge and adapter, I just need to know which. I see some that EBay has some adapters for about ten dollars.

If the CEL only turns on for a few seconds when the key is first turned to the II position and remains off is normal. The CEL on solid when SCS connector is jumpered means no codes are stored. If CEL turns on while driving, then a solid CEL when jumpered could indicate an ECU problem.

I don't think you can easily access the EGR ports by removing the intake. Those plugs should be removed and the intake manifold left attached. Those plugs are not too bad to remove. Plus removing the intake could result in a vacuum leak after reassembly and make diagnosing the original problem more difficult.

Some parts stores will loan out a fuel pressure tester kit. Check if your local parts store has one with multiple adapters. I am not sure if these kits have an adapter that will fit a honda.

I've seen a number of threads in various forums about how to go about the removal of those plugs and there seems to be a multitude of ways to do it. The same goes for resealing those ports. How would you recommend I go about it?

Google T2T013.pdf and download that file. There are some good pictures to show you how to remove the plug. You can make a slide hammer using a long wood screw, some washers, and a socket.

If you don't drill through the plug, they are reusable. You may just want to get new egr port plugs.

Fantastic! I am going to pick me up a small slide hammer today and see where I can get. I will also see if one of my local auto stores has a loaner fuel pressure kit that might fit my car. I'll update soon.

We usually drill them with a bit sized so that when done we can tap them and install a 7mm x 1.00 thread pitch short bolt. If you do it this way be sure to add bearing grease to both the drill bit and tap and keep it cleaned and greased to prevent metal flakes for getting into the chamber. The reason we do the plug style EGR ports this way is that if the ports ever need to be serviced again we just remove the bolts clean and reinstall.

However, before doing the ports your should check the valve.

I managed to get one of the egr plugs off yesterday before going inside. It is most certainly clogged. Unfortunately, some metal flakes did fall in so it appears I'll need to do some very good vacuuming.

The valve I cleaned a while back before knowing how to deal with the ports. It seems to moved fine but I haven't checked it with a hand vacuum. My friend has one, I'll test it with that soon.

I pulled the EGR plugs and cleaned the ports. Put in new plugs. I also cleaned the IACV. Reinstalled everything and tried to start her. No luck. Would turn over and hear occasional random combustion. I tried over and over in short bursts of attempts every few minutes for about fifteen minutes. Got it to barely idle once and then she died. Later in the day I thought what the hell, give her a couple cranks and try again. First time no luck, second time no luck, third time she starts! Very poor idle. After letting it sit for a minute she idled like she did before but still almost dies if I lightly tap the throttle. If I just push down the throttle I can rev to whatever RPM just fine, but a light tap still nearly kills it.

I read that if you pull the vacuum line to the EGR port, the engine should stumble unless ports are clogged. If it doesn't stumble, could that also indicate a faulty valve?

I have noticed that it smells like it's burning rich which could possibly indicate a bad O2 sensor? Correct?

Tune up items are ? (Cap, rotor, plugs and wires)

When it won't start - is the tach moving?

I haven't changed out those parts yet. I changed the plugs about 8 months ago with NGKs. I did pull them out and look at them and they seem to be fine, they are gapped appropriately. Wires, cap and rotor have not been changed out yet but I did look at the rotor and cap and they seemed ok as well. A little carbon on the contacts, but I cleaned that off. I will actually be ordering new plugs, wires, cap and rotor here soon just to get those out of the way. I did find that the lead wire from the coil pack to the distributor (excuse me if I got the terminology incorrect) had been sitting against a metal clip atop the engine and it had melted through and been arcing there for I don't know how long. Likely this has something to do with my problem I bet. For now I moved it and covered it with electrical tape so it makes no contact with anything.

The tach does move when it doesn't want to start.

New spark plugs, wires, rotors and cap have all been replaced. No change. I noticed that the old plugs smell quite strong of gas and were a bit black. (I had tried starting it randomly to get it to idle but no luck. Worked one day last month but not since then.) Now, if I crank it you can hear it try to start and then nothing. Usually on the second or third attempt it will start and run for about five seconds and then just dies. I am going to buy a spark tester and rent a fuel pressure gauge next.

Long story short, the fuel pump was bad. Put the old one back in and she started. Runs pretty rough though. I'll start a new thread for that problem. Unless you guys think I should keep this all within this thread?