'92 hard starting at first-start-of-day
 

When cold, my car needs 2-3 cranking "sessions." When I say "cold," I mean first-start-of-day...regardless of temperature.

Fresh: wires, cap, rotor, ignitor, coil. Plugs are not old enough to change.

My CEL comes on/off correctly and I hear the fuel pump when the CEL is on at pre-crank.

The car runs and starts fine for the rest of the day.

Diagnostic suggestions, please. Thanks,

Roy

When you turn the key to start the car, does the starter spin the engine at the normal rate?

Or is the car not firing up? That is when the engine is running by itself and you can release the key. Just want to get the terminology straight.

The starter always spins at the correct speed. When the motor won't start, it "feels" like a fuel-delivery problem.

All key functions seem to work fine.

I, of course, thought it was a relay or pump problem. Then, I read about the CEL and listening for the pump. People write about the pump sticking-on-start and needing a couple tries. But, the pump makes the same noise (when the CEL is on) just before it doesn't start as it does just before the motor starts.

Roy

Just because the fuelpump runs, that doesn't prove the injectors are firing. That's another thing for you to check out.

Spray starting fluid into throttle body to see if it fires up for a couple seconds. If it does, then the spark plugs are firing OK.

I think in 92 the injectors are powered through a resistor box so you can look for loose/dirty/corroded connections. One wire on each injector is powered constantly (when the key is on) and the ECU switches the ground leg of each injector circuit to fire that injector.

OK, get this...I am beginning to think my problem is simply "operator error."

I think when it was, say 25*F, I was attempting to start with the gas pedal depressed half way. And, I was getting the need-to-spin-twice-or-three-times problem. (I have a truck which calls for the half-throttle cold weather start.)

Recently, I have been starting the Accord with my foot off the gas, and it has always started on the first spin. I just did the 1/2-throttle as a test and it took two spins.

Does this make sense?

Roy

per my history:
foot on gas is for carb'ed cars.
no touch gas pedal is for fuel injected cars.

Yeah, that makes sense. You jump back & forth between carbs & injected cars, so you need to remember that.

OK, for many months the problem was gone. Now, it is back. Every once in a while now, the problem will happen at times other than the first-start-of-the-day.

But, I have new, and I think important, data. I installed an indicator light in the +12vdc line right at the fuel pump. The light is back on the rear deck where I can see it in the mirror.

Now, I know:

1. All dash lights always work correctly; including the CEL upon the start sequence. The CEL works correctly even when the car will not start.

2. My indicator light tells me, when the car will not start, the problem is always the fuel pump not getting +12v.

3. The solution is to turn the key on and off...until I see the fuel pump get power.

4. I think #1 suggests the problem is not the key/switch. I think #2 suggests the problem is not a hung-up fuel pump).

5. To me, this leaves the fuel pump relay.

Thoughts?

Roy

Could be the main relay, of course there are the inputs to it that could be missing, as you noted one being the switch.

I'm not sure if you have read this or not, good information here.

Main Relay Fix, Troubleshooting (Honda, Acura) and how to solder

Did you check for 12v at the fuel pump connector in the trunk?

Did you realize the 12v only stays on 2-3 secs and goes off if engine is not started? If you turned keyswitch on and went to trunk to check, the power would be off by the time your arrived at trunk.

Make sure your problem is not Main Fuel Relay, as otherwise the problem is most likely fuel pump. I had to replace mine after many false diagnoses by myself of "MFR problem"

good luck