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97 Accord won't start...ugh

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  #11  
Old 06-10-2010, 07:33 AM
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Points to 1 or 4, since TDC comes around twice in each cycle.

Firing order for the wires??
Honda normally puts some kind of mark on the distributor cap alongside #1 - maybe "A" or something stamped into the surface of the cap. Then it's 1-3-4-2 around in a clockwise direction. (It's a 4-cyl, right?)

Finally if all else fails, new spark plugs. I had a flooded condition but after I fixed it the engine still wouldn't start. The plugs looked real clean & nice so I was too stubborn to install new ones. Soon as I did that, it started right up. They must have been fouled in some strange way but they looked real good.
 
  #12  
Old 06-10-2010, 12:04 PM
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Right, there is a letter next to cylinder 1. I installed brand new NGK's when I put it back together. Any one know of a shop manual online? The one I have does not include the 22b2, only the b1. What's up with that? Hard to use it when they say test on the 8 pin connector that is only 4 on this engine and nothing in the manual about the TDC sensor by the crank pulley, I only found out what it was by scouring the parts breakdown online. I could buy one off E-bay I guess.
 
  #13  
Old 06-10-2010, 01:37 PM
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There is a 94 shop manual that you can download from the spooner link I posted in the online manuals thread in the DIY section.

The difference between the 94 and the 97 distributor is that some of the distributor sensors in the 94 were moved to under the timing belt. That is why you have less wires in the distributor plug.

The wire colors may be the same, so you might be able to use that to help you out.

At this point, you should determine if the problem is due to lack of spark, lack of fuel, or lack of compression (since you just had the engine apart). A flashing timing light = good spark. You already did the starting fluid for fuel and hear the fuel pump, so you likely have fuel.

Also, check around the cylinder head to ensure that you have everything plugged in properly. Look in that shop manual for all the ground locations for the wiring harness to be sure that you didn't forget to tighten one.
 
  #14  
Old 06-11-2010, 01:19 PM
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Thanks PAhonda but they don't appear to be the same for wire colors. None of the manuals I can find, including the 3 links in that post, have the f22b2 engine listed except for in supplements. The supplements do not say anything about the different distributer and testing of the f22b2 setup. From what I can see this engine was from 94-97 but that manual only lists the Vtec, go figure. Seeing I get nothing with the starting fluid I would think it has to be timing related. I haven't had time to get into more but I will tomorrow. I just can't wrap my brain around how it ran one day but not the next. Makes me wonder if the distributor is off 180 degrees but again why would it run in the first place. More to come tomorrow. If anyone knows which manual covers the f22b2 engine and it's sensors I would appreciate the info. Thx!
 
  #15  
Old 06-12-2010, 03:15 PM
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Well, I'm getting closer. Maybe the extra info I give will make a light come on for someone. At least I have an idea where to look now.
1- Rechecked all the timing lines for the t/b including where the rotor was pointing to at TDC, all good.
2- Checked for spark again and checking proper timing with my timing light, all good.
3- Put the plugs in my Civic, started right up. Tested plug wires while there.
4- Out of curiousity I unplugged the TDC sensor on the T/B side to see if I would have spark without it. No spark so that sensor is needed for spark and not just for slight timing. I plugged the sensor back in and the engine fired once, wth?!?!! It did this everytime I unplugged, turned over and plugged back in, weird.
5- Tested the Fuel relay & plug under the dash per the manual...all good
6- Now getting annoyed I pulled the fuel rail and injectors to see if they were pushing gas. I jumped when the car started and ran for 5 seconds or so. Yes the injectors were spraying a nice cone into my bucket. I put the rail back on and nothing. Pull it and again it ran for a couple seconds.
7- Seeing I'm now thinking that I'm not get air into the intake I pulled a couple hoses including the one going to the brake booster. The thing started and I could control how high it revved by covering the hose end with my finger. As I was doing this I plugged the hose back in and it idled down. Shut the car off and try to restart and still no start. By this time the battery is pretty low. It's charging now.

So, the only thing I can conclude is that when the injectors were out it could breath enough from the injector holes to burn up the fuel already on there. Pulling the vacuum hose let it breath enough to run. I see there are a couple electrical things on the intake. I'm thinking one of those is either stuck shut or not working as it should be. Thoughts? I'll have to look through the manual to see what those things do. Sorry about the book....
 
  #16  
Old 06-16-2010, 12:40 PM
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Update, I can start the car if I press the pedal part way down on the first try of the day. I tested the TPS and the voltage changes on it per how much the throttle is opened so it's good. I then removed the IAC and cleaned it, it was pretty dirty. It seems to move ok when first turning the key and with voltage on it from my drill battery. Now I can get it to start unless I leave the pedal alone, it tries to start but stumbles. After starting it will idle kind of low until it warms up but it eventually stalls when warm enough. It will run by holding the pedal a bit but the lower the rpm the rougher the engine. It's smooth above 1500 rpm. I seem to be getting closer. Thoughts?
 
  #17  
Old 06-16-2010, 01:37 PM
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You can remove the intake hose from the TB, and see if you have the same problem with starting/idling. That would eliminate something a shop rag that may have fallen into the air cleaner box (guess how I know about that).

Maybe you should set the base idle? Its on page 11-73 of that shop manual I posted about. It has some things to check before setting the base idle, and the pcv system is one item that you haven't checked yet.

EDIT: If the IAC was dirty, clean the bore of the throttle body and both sides of the throttle plate. Use some TB cleaner, an old toothbrush, and some shop rags. Do this before setting the idle.
 
  #18  
Old 06-16-2010, 02:36 PM
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If the IACV was dirty, also check/clean the FITV.
 
  #19  
Old 06-16-2010, 05:18 PM
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Actually, most of the time I had the intake hose off from when I was spraying starting fluid in. I attached everything back up when I had the low idle but no change. I contemplated changing the idle but why would it be different since replacing the head? There is some sort of solenoid that clicks when the engine is close to dying out, I have yet to figure out what it is as I ran out of time to look. I'm also going to look into the FITV as Jim mentions.
 
  #20  
Old 06-16-2010, 09:57 PM
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FITV is bolted on the underside of the throttlebody. It's supposed to be open when cold - the modern equivalent of the fast-idle cam on a carburator.
 


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