I have a 97 Accord, non-vtec 2.2L four cyl. automatic trans that is setting a 0336 and 1361 code for the two sensors mentioned above. It began to miss and would not run over 3kRpm's. I changed out the timing belt, idlers, New Oem crank and top dead sensors. 3 distributors, which has the cylinder or Cam postion sensor built into the distributor. New coil, 2 computers. I read the resistance from c31 (Computer connecter ) pins c3-c13, and c2-c12 thru the two sensors mentioned and it rang out at 2,100 ohm on both sensors, dead on according to the OEM factory manual. I read both of these lines to ground, no connection as it should be. I checked all grounds and even ran a ground from the computer back to the engine bay. I've check the fuel pressure, o.k. It also has new spark plugs and all wires have been ohmed out and checked to factory spec. Timing mark on the damper is at top dead cylinder, number one cyl. is at top of compression stroke with both valves closed and rotor button is pointing to number 1. It will occasionally start and run without issues up to 3,000 rpms but above that it misses and dies and may or may not start...
Any help would be greatly appreciated as the Honda shop is even stumped.
Danny


I joined this site hoping to get some help on my problem. I've read countless issues similar to mine on hear and I'm sure someone eventually fixed their car. I'm surprised to find that no one shares their findings to help others.
Has anyone ever heard of a bad ignition switch causing a Crank Position fault?

 

You were very thorough with your diagnostics, but one thing I see missing is a fuel pump volume test. The static pressure may be within specs, but if the pump is weak or the filter is plugged you will have similar symptoms. If you don't have a volume kit, monitor the fuel fuel pressure under load when the problem occurs. You will have to secure the gauge to the windshield for this. This may not cause your codes but may help the driveability problem. Also, you noted that the crankshaft was at top dead center and the rotor is pointing at number 1. Just wanted to make sure that you used the correct marks on the camshaft pulley, because if you use the rotor it may be one tooth off. And the balance shaft has a procedure to line up the timing marks using a pin in the side of the block, if this is not followed the engine will vibrate also.
Another test would be to put a test light on the black and yellow wire at the distributor or the ignition coil and make sure it stays lit when the problem occurs. If you lose power suspect the ignition switch causing your problem.

 

If the codes are cleared, does the CEL come back immediately?

 

Thanks Dr. Drivability and Roader for replying.
It will only start once every 30-40 times and is disabled at the present time. I've sprayed starting fluid in it, no help. I've not driven it since this problem started 2 months ago. The damper has 3 marks on it, the one I'm using is the one that is just above the keyway and the one the book says to use. I've not check the black yellow coil wire yet but I plan to put 12 volts directly on the wire as soon as I can get back on it and bypass the ignition switch. The balance shaft was pinned prior to belt removal and the idler pulley ( or what ever the front pulley is ) was lined up at the 9 and 12 O:clock positions in place. When the code is cleared the code immediately comes back. I went to a import specialist shop 2 days ago and offered to pay them to fix it but they declined after I told them all I've done to it. The Honda shop also does not know what is going one. I've had a couple people tell me to put a battery in it but the battery will sit there a month and spin it over fine, so it's hard for me to buy that. As I mentioned, I do plan to hot the coil wire and see what happens but I can't figure out how even loosing power would set a cel light.

Thank you both once again for your response and when I find out the root cause, I'll post it.

 

I'm still working on this car, it's been 3 months now. I thought it may be the ignition switch but I hot wired the car today by putting 12 volts directly on the ignition coil but nothing changed. It cranked over and tried to hit but that is the same as it's been doing for 3 months now. If I ever find out what's wrong with it, I'post it. Right now I'm thinking about junking it, really hate to do that as it's been such a good car.

 

Have you read 1997 Accord shutting off no start with cel?Was the replacement CKP/TDC sensor set new? OEM or aftermarket?

 

Check for loose pins on the PCM and electrical connector for those pins that go to those sensors.

 

P0336 is CKP sensor intermittent interruption.
P1361 is TDC sensor intermittent interruption.

Essentially, something is disrupting the signals for the respective combined sensors to the PCM. Both sensors are located at the same approximate area.

When you measured the resistance for the CKP sensor and TDC sensor, the respective readings were according to spec. In addition, there was no continuity to ground when testing the respective sensor wire terminals.
At the ECM/PCM, the measured resistance readings for the respective wires coming from the sensors to the ECM/PCM harness connectors were also consistent with the readings at the sensors. Continuity was also not present there when testing the respective ECM/PCM harness connector terminals for the sensors.

I’m just throwing this out there. Some other things to look at:
• Reluctor ring
• Installation of the sensors
• Sensor (As Roader asked, was the part OEM or aftermarket?)
• The wiring providing a ground path for the wire shielding; the shielding

Part of the wiring for the CKP/TDC sensor going to the ECM/PCM is shielded. This is to shield the CKP/TDC signal from interference from noise created from the ignition system. The shielding is wrapped around the outside of the signal wires; the shielding is connected to wiring which eventually leads to ground location G101. The shielding picks up noise like an antenna and channel it to ground instead of to the ECM/PCM as a noisy signal. There are a couple of connectors where the ground wiring for the shielding runs through. One is Connector C131 - a 14P Grey connector, located at the right rear of the engine compartment. The other is Connector C452 – a 20P White or Black connector, located behind the center of the dash.

 

The Crankshaft/Top dead center position sensor are oem and new. I have put a new oem reluctor ring on it also. The engine had the same problem before I put all these parts on it.
Can you tell me where the shielding starts and ends on the wiring? I;ve seen this shielding in my factory manual but so far, I've not located it. I know there is no shielding on the sensors themselves. I've been carefull not to spread the pins at the Computer to far, I went to the junk yard and cut some connectors out of a car and made me some test leads out of those. My next step has to be to locate the shielding and inspect it.
I thank everyone for your help.
Pondrun

 

It looks like there are two areas of different shielding for those wires. There is shielding that wraps around just the TDC/CKP Grn and Blu wires along the harness wiring before Connector C131. At C131, there is a braided ground wire that is attached to the shielding to provide the ground path to Ground G101. Then after Connector C131, there is shielding that wraps around the TDC/CKP Grn and Blu wire, plus the CYP Yel wire coming from the distributor. The harness wiring from C131 leads into the cabin, it looks like a ground wire from Connector C452 is attached to the shielding there.