1994 Honda Accord EX 4cyl automatic with 240,000 miles (the f22 or f23, whatever the stock 145hp engine is) which i'm trying to rescue (not quite worth paying a professional to fix things for, but I like the car and would really like to keep her running since i'm not aware of any other critical problems preventing several years more of use) with a plan to drive for another 70,000 miles or so if we can, possibly 100k or more. (not planning more only because most automatics dont live beyond 300-some thousand and assume it's not worth the effort to swap that - fluid is still pink with no stink)

I started a new thread on this because my questions go beyond the original 'torch the crank bolt' question... i'm watching through a how to video and seeing multiple other things that (for a total newbie to this) give me pause. This is looking as involved as when I did a clutch job on a Saturn with no experience... I lived thru it (and so did the car) but I felt in over my head.

I'm trying hard to do this job over the next several days. (if i'm not done by saturday morning I have to come back in a few weeks to finish it up, however I DO have the luxury that I can walk away - wait for feedback from the forums - and come back to it on 3 day weekends when i'm back in town)

For anyone curious this is the "how to" video I am currently using. I will be giving timecodes about what I have questions on. (I also plan to watch at least one other video for perspective, which I will link and timecode as well if i'm asking commentary from anyone)


So far i'm about an hour into my notes and I have the following questions:

#1 Is it possible for me to postpone a radiatior/ engine block/ heater core flush until I see if the timing belt works? Or does that create nontrivial extra annoyances?

The reason for asking is that currently the vehicle is nicely up on jackstands - in a flat garage - with nowhere for the water to go. I also cant start and run any kind of pour in flush with the engine part dissembled. I assumed draining the rad and such was required but by an hour in it sounds like it may not be. I'd rather do all the flush when i'm parked OUTSIDE the garage, when the driveway will carry crap away, and after I know it's not wasted effort (if the timing belt runs happily afterwards I know the worst is over, but I wont know if I screwed it up til first startup, so adding extra effort before first startup i'd rather avoid).

#2 Should I proactively replace my oil pump as well even if it doesn't need it? (for that matter how would I know if it needs it, or if thats to be concerned) Being as hard as it is to get down to things under the timing belt, is this an "also recommend" or optional or not usually worth it..

#3 Minor one, do I need to remove the spark plugs to pull off the valve cover? (not clear to me on the video but I wasnt sure why he was doing it) I'm not against checking/ replacing/ whatever, just didnt want anything falling down the piston holes... and I left my plug sockets at home...

#4 Will I have any concerns about air getting into power steering lines and such when I remove the PS pump? Am I trying to cap off/prevent that I mean or just leave the lines open to the air when getting it out of the way.. I know to keep track of/not lose the O-ring...

#5 At 1:01 in the video he is spinning some tensioner component, is this something included/normally replaced in timing belt kits? Am I just checking to see that it spins freely without noise? Is it worth preemptively replacing (expected to eventually fail but cheap) or not? (or maybe it's already in I think I see something similar - the Aisin kit is what i'm using)

#6 Is there anything else, not included in that kit, that I should be considering "to inspect or preemptively replace when i'm elbows deep into the engine" because it's cheap or/and can fail suddenly and not worth the effort to go in later? I'm hoping to not have to go this deep into the engine again if I can help it as I wont have an indoor location to do so in the future. (hence asking about the oil pump and such - whereas things like starters and alternators are much easier)

 

#1 Sure you can do the coolant later. When you remove the waterpump, it'll all spill out so have a big pan to collect the mess.

#2 I wouldn't replace the oil pump for no reason, but let's see how many people disagree about that...

#3 Removing the spark plugs will make it slightly easier to spin the engine when aligning the timing marks & when adjusting valve lash.

#4 I would try to leave the PS hoses all connected and just lay the PS pump off to the side somewhere.

#5 / 6 Probably that's the tensioner pulleys for the timing belts (camshaft belt & balance-shaft belt). If that pulley starts making grinding noises in 6 months, you'll kick yourself for not replacing them. I didn't use new ones on the 3 timing belt jobs that I ever did, and I got away with it. YMMV. (edit: YES those 2 tensioner pulleys are shown in the Amazon photo)

OTOH, on my 95 Integra I didn't replace the waterpump and it started leaking a few months after the timing belt job. Yes, I kicked myself but I couldn't blame anyone but myself because I was warned...

 

Sharing updates for anyone interested...

I do NOT recommend the above video as the SOLE source of information for this job nor to follow along without being familiar with the whole process like I was originally planning! I hadn't watched it all thru before (too much mental overload if I dont understand everything) but since I couldn't start work anyways by now i've watched thru it all about three times taking notes... and the guy makes mistakes in video that he never re-edited out. Like "oh I shoulda put the oil dipstick back on BEFORE I put the power steering pump!" which would be an ugly surprise for other total newbies like me who have never done this before. Nor does it have torque specs for a number of bolts during reassembly.

It's still a good and useful video, but it should not be a sole video nor only watched once.

When it's all over i'm going to put together an informational post about my own sticking points for other first timers to try and contribute back something useful.


#1 okay then i'll wait on the radiator flush. The only comment in the video was coolant can pool in the bottom of the block (and perhaps easier to drain out with the water pump out) but if i flush with water thru the block i'm hoping it wont matter. (i'm only planning on putting in green coolant - it already had green coolant, no blue, and when leaking like a seive thats whats it got topped with too)

#2 okay i will let it sit for now, is there any way to know if its good vs failing or ready to fail i mean though? i just assume 240k miles (and hoping to last over 300k without going this deep again) is alot.

#3 okay, i'll reseat them carefully in (to keep stuff out) but be able to quickly remove for that part of things

#4 i will attempt to do it this way and report on how well it worked

#5/6 okay so the tensioner pulleys are the parts that ARE included with my timing belt kit, so i just put them in place during reassembly (no concerns about pre-oiling or anything else i need to do with them i hope)

I'm going to go watch one or more other timing belt videos to get another perspective on this job. It's raining all evening and I still cant start work on things. (car is in a garage but no room to work without opening the door)

Hoping other people can maybe comment if they think a preemptive oil pump replacement would have any point...

 

MINOR UPDATE - Stymied with the power steering

I feel stupid but this is where i'm stuck.

Got the valve cover off fine, plugs out, and then i'm having trouble orienting which bolts where should come off the power steering.

The "front" view (belt side) has I think it's my brake cylinder reservoir or something (with the red cap) right in front of the power steering pump, the videos i'm watching show it not in the way. It's making it hard to see, or to know where the other nuts or bolts might be. From the front side I removed one 12mm nut (yes nut not bolt) from like the upper right (facing the belt) that was obvious:



The "Back" side view (where I see the four bolts on the backside of the pump) confuses me because where I have that white arrow I thought there was supposed to be a nut or a bolt and there is neither... like something just pushed through from the backside. From the back I was able to move one other 12mm nut (again a nut not a bolt, with a built in washer of sorts slanting down not flat on top) from what I think would be the upper left. (not in picture, and i'm no longer in front of the car to remember what I pulled from where because I had to drive back home)



Using these two pictures as orientation front and backside, what other bolts do I need to access to move the power steering pump and what is their orientation? (ie straight in, or something on the side not visible in either picture) I was trying to leave the hoses to both sides in place if I can and afraid to do anything if I cannot 100% identify which nuts/bolts are what right now...

PS just to be clear, yes I removed two 12mm NUTS not bolts. One being a nut where I thought the bolt should be, leaving me confused enough wondering if there's some variation of power steering pump held on differently than the video explained (also the location with the brake fluid fill in the way and such) to just wait until someone who knows better than me (possibly anyone on this board) to let me know what i'm doing wrong. If two bolts had come out the video tells me there should be one more 10mm bolt on the bracket but I stopped for the night because it's not matching the notes I wrote for myself from the vids.

 

The common diy thread on top of the gen tech help section has a link for online shop manuals. You can get a 94 shop manual for free as a pdf. I think the hondahookup link still works.

The white arrow is pointing towards the tension mechanism. You need to loosen the tension on the belt. The PS pump is held on by 2 or 3 bolts. The 4 bolts on the back of the pump do not need to be removed and shouldn't be removed. There are youtube videos showing how to remove the pump. It is not very complicated.

 

I'm aware of it, was having an issue registering at hondahookup was all, i'll get it sooner or later. The spoon link seems long deceased, the hondatech gives me xml parsing errors or timeouts.

I was just trying to see if there was something 'obvious' I was overlooking or not knowing about. One question still in my head is whether i'm supposed to try and remove that top hose or not - there's two hoses connected, one from the side, and the video I saw removes the 10mm bolts on top with the O-ring but not the lower one. I wasn't sure whether the advice to leave hoses attached was both hoses or just the lower one...

EDIT: Stupid me, the pump was just dirt-or-rust-stuck to the bracket under the 10mm bolt. When I banged it with a rubber mallet literally one more time it moved free. However the pump still I think looks a little different, instead of two bolts I had those two nuts and I thought the shape was slightly different... i'll post pictures when I get a chance of what my concern is. Meanwhile i'm just wondering "should I try to leave all hoses attached, or will it get in the way/remove the top one/any problems if I remove it like air bubbles getting in".

 

I left the hoses attached when I did the timing belt on my 95 accord. The PS plastic reservoir slides out of a holder to give you more room to move the pump out of the way.

 

Thank you for the second affirmation of someone else suggesting to not disconnect the hoses, I guess i'll continue for now seeing if I can leave it hooked up. (on youtube someone even suggests not bothering to remove the valve cover either)

Going to resume disassembly in early morning. Meanwhile viewing other videos and reading other feedback, and glancing thru one of the shop manuals (finally downloaded) is giving me a few other questions...


Should I be concerned about replacing SEALS? Reading youtube comments on a few different videos mentions seals for crankshaft, camshaft, and front balance shaft. I'm curious how much extra work it is, if it's worth doing as a preventative measure, and how to tell if what I have is in bad (requires, instead of optional - as in would damage timing belt not just an inconvenience). I'm going to try and post pictures without/before cleaning just under where I assume the cam and crank are at the block, i'm not sure where the front balance shaft seal needs a picture (since I didn't see a mention in the shop manual about inspecting or replacing that during the timing belt, just cam/crank seals) but if you can tell me what to take a picture of i'll get that... i'll also take pictures of the belt. (I expect coolant damage but if not obvious may not be sure what oil damage might look like)

One other question I have is about the need to adjust valves with the cover off... should that be done before the engine even fires off again (want to verify my timing belt and water pump change worked and doesnt leak first) or is it fine to finish this job before taking the valve cover back off and doing it then if at all?

 

Replacing the seals is not too difficult as you are right there. Removing the old seal is more difficult than installing the new seal. You don't want to scratch the aluminum surface where the seal sits when removing the seal. You have to install the new seal square and match the depth of the old seal.

Some people suggest to not replace the seal unless you see a leak when you remove the timing belt cover.

I forgot to mention that there is an ericthecarguy video on the ericthecarguy.com website that you can purchase for $10 that is a step by step procedure to do all this work. I think the video is like 2 hours long and covers every bolt. Worth the money in my opinion.

Your 02 should also have the front balance shaft seal retainer installed. That was part of a recall, so you may want to call your local honda dealership to see if this service was done on your car. If not , get that seal retainer and install it when doing your timing belt.

 

Just a quick sharing, i'm going to have to resume this work in two weeks. The car is parked indoors but will be 250 miles away from me while I do my first two weeks of college, i'm planning to come back down labor day weekend and try to resume.

Got stymied at other minor things. Anyone reading so far or/and willing to contribute please post while i'm gone - when I go from help-recipient to help-completed I hope to try and give something back posting about my sticking points and more.

I'm going to take pictures when both covers are off in case something isn't obvious to my untrained eyes, I assume i'm just lighting the area vertically below each. Still wasn't sure what was meant by the front balance shaft seal as I dont recall a reference in the shop manual unless i'm missing it. If the seals don't need replacing i'm happy to leave them alone, after eyeing the oil pump (and it's cost) i'm happy to leave that alone too hoping it wont fail before 330k as well.

Someone in the past mentioned that, it probably is worth the money and it's probably dumb to go on without I suppose, though so far reading the shop manual sounds pretty straightforward. The main things holding me up are stuck bolts or my unfamiliar eyes/not being sure what i'm looking at in the dark thru the grime, and needing to check other videos to familiarize myself with something better. I've watched three different people's full TB/WP change videos so far plus several other side videos on youtube, read comments, and even identified the actual mistake in the video I linked at the top (for setting TB tension) in what's otherwise a useful video showing detail at other sticking points.

It might've been better for me to just start with the $10 video (which I forgot about being recommended entirely I think two years ago) and I might just get it anyways if there's not another video covering cam/crank seals anywhere (suggestions?) if I find evidence they need replacing when I get back over labor day. In either case I hope to provide reviews and probably timecodes for the publically available youtube videos so anyone else doing this in the future can be passed on some help as well. I may not be able to pass on much else (yet) but if this job goes well i'll try my best to pay it forward.

Right now about the only other issue I have any concern with is probably setting the timing belt tension and mostly because the original video (linked at top) IS MISTAKEN so it put itself in my brain the wrong way. :) Even tho the comment section for it is full of people saying whats wrong.

I'm a 1994 unless you dont mean year. I watched a separate video (by Tails G) talking about the front balance shaft retaining clip/seal retainer - until I get back there (too late to check in person, back on labor day) I wont know if it's there or not, or if this was ever done. If mine wasn't done originally how do I get the part, just show up with a VIN or what?

PS - some of my images in this thread may go dark because of a Dropbox policy change, if they do I can fix them when back if this occurs.