improbable miss?
#1
10-14-2012, 10:54 AM
improbable miss?
91 accord sedan 2.2L (F22A1) 4speed auto. 252K miles.
recently; the vehicle has lost a dramatic amount of power. while attempting take off, the engine falters. in reverse it pops loudly and feels like you're running on possible one or two cylinders. at low speed idle the becomes rougher and rougher and the phantom of a die-off looms ominously.
it sounds like a cylinder miss. and at low-rpm you can hear a pop in the exhaust, the engine feels and sounds like it is backfiring.
i am not the most experienced wrench jockey. i have 7 years of experience as a general service technician at an infiniti dealership.
here is what i have done so far.
new plugs
new wires
removed and cleaned distributor cap/rotor. removed distributor to check for oil, clean.
removed and cleaned throttlebody
have tried rocking distributor to alter timing.
cleaned and adjusted fast-intake valve.
i regularly use fuel injector cleaner (every other fillup)
i use either 91 or 93 rated octane
--yesterday i took the vehicle to NTB in janesville Wi.
they charged 99 for a vehicle diagnostic and said it was the timing belt.
they replaced the timing belt and set the timing with a timing light. they also said they *had* to replace the water pump.
all-in-all it cost ~$615. there has been no change in the vehicles sound or performance. there still a poping noise in the exhaust at low-rpm, and the vehicle is vastly underpowered.
if anyone has any suggestions as to where to look next; i would be grateful.
other information. the check engine light is usually not on. sometimes it will be, sometimes it will not be.
the S light also blinks occasionally, but sometimes works as normal.
recently; the vehicle has lost a dramatic amount of power. while attempting take off, the engine falters. in reverse it pops loudly and feels like you're running on possible one or two cylinders. at low speed idle the becomes rougher and rougher and the phantom of a die-off looms ominously.
it sounds like a cylinder miss. and at low-rpm you can hear a pop in the exhaust, the engine feels and sounds like it is backfiring.
i am not the most experienced wrench jockey. i have 7 years of experience as a general service technician at an infiniti dealership.
here is what i have done so far.
new plugs
new wires
removed and cleaned distributor cap/rotor. removed distributor to check for oil, clean.
removed and cleaned throttlebody
have tried rocking distributor to alter timing.
cleaned and adjusted fast-intake valve.
i regularly use fuel injector cleaner (every other fillup)
i use either 91 or 93 rated octane
--yesterday i took the vehicle to NTB in janesville Wi.
they charged 99 for a vehicle diagnostic and said it was the timing belt.
they replaced the timing belt and set the timing with a timing light. they also said they *had* to replace the water pump.
all-in-all it cost ~$615. there has been no change in the vehicles sound or performance. there still a poping noise in the exhaust at low-rpm, and the vehicle is vastly underpowered.
if anyone has any suggestions as to where to look next; i would be grateful.
other information. the check engine light is usually not on. sometimes it will be, sometimes it will not be.
the S light also blinks occasionally, but sometimes works as normal.
#2
10-14-2012, 11:52 AM
Get the codes for the ECU and TCU (CEL and D4/S Light). Lets start there, I've got an idea or two but we need to start with the codes first......there is a "how to" in this link/thread: https://www.hondaaccordforum.com/for...threads-40780/
#3
10-14-2012, 03:20 PM
alright; give me a moment to put it back together; i have the fuel rail off. i cleaned up the injectors bu running throttle body cleaner through them.
#4
10-14-2012, 03:23 PM
--yesterday i took the vehicle to NTB in janesville Wi.
they charged 99 for a vehicle diagnostic and said it was the timing belt.
they replaced the timing belt and set the timing with a timing light. they also said they *had* to replace the water pump.
all-in-all it cost ~$615.
they charged 99 for a vehicle diagnostic and said it was the timing belt.
they replaced the timing belt and set the timing with a timing light. they also said they *had* to replace the water pump.
all-in-all it cost ~$615.
and if shop hasn't fixed it after $720 they should fix it on their dollar. Warranty.
#5
10-14-2012, 05:17 PM
store was closing though; the technician started the vehicle in the lot for me, sounded much better than on arrival. found out about a quarter mile down the road that it was still sounded like a giant leaf blower.
they didnt fix the problem i was worried about, but to be fair they did:
1. replace a worn-out OE timing belt
2. properly set vehicle timing
3. install a new water-pump and flush the cooling system
i may talk to them about the 99$ diagnostic charge however; as they said the miss/backfiring was caused by the timing belt; and it still has the same problem.
==========================
next; i reassembled the motor and having cleaned the injectors, the problem is not yet resolved.
the CEL and S light are not on. when pressing the sport button on the shifter the S light illuminates properly, and the CEL does come on at startup; so the indicators are not burnt out or without power.
after i warm up my feetsies a bit im going to see if the system has any stored codes.
this is such ***** haha. but hey, if you can't laugh at your own misfortune, then that is when you truly admit defeat.
#6
10-20-2012, 02:54 PM
update!
cylinder 4 exhaust valve is cracked.
got new felpro kit in the mail today. valves on the way from am motorsport; i think i might have this licked as long as i dont screw this up haha!
its also been brought to my attention that i have spent over 1100 on this car. and that a new motor would ave been 400 or i could have just gotten a different car for about 700.
damn. haha.
cylinder 4 exhaust valve is cracked.
got new felpro kit in the mail today. valves on the way from am motorsport; i think i might have this licked as long as i dont screw this up haha!
its also been brought to my attention that i have spent over 1100 on this car. and that a new motor would ave been 400 or i could have just gotten a different car for about 700.
damn. haha.
#7
10-21-2012, 04:08 PM
day 2 of breakdown; problem 
everything is unhooked and i am trying to remove the head; however i am unable to break a single bolt free.
are these possibly reverse thread bolts?
i have never removed the head to an accord before; so i looked up the diagrams for loosening and tightening order as well as torque specs per pass. any ideas guys?
everything is unhooked and i am trying to remove the head; however i am unable to break a single bolt free.
are these possibly reverse thread bolts?
i have never removed the head to an accord before; so i looked up the diagrams for loosening and tightening order as well as torque specs per pass. any ideas guys?
#9
10-21-2012, 10:31 PM
well, so far i've broken 2 3/8s extensions. im going to get a 1/2" tomorrow morning. if that breaks.... buh. i dont have any air tools or a compressor hee for an impact.
#10
10-22-2012, 10:19 AM
Having done a headgasket on a 1998 F23; I used 1/2"-drive tools but no air-tools. I've got a flex-handle that I used, maybe 18" long. I don't remember needing any cheater pipe on top of that. I remember it being pretty tight, so I can understand breaking 3/8"-drive tools.
Grab one hand at the pivot point & the other hand at the end of the handle. That way you resist bending on the extension, you only want torsion. (Maybe that's already obvious to you)
Grab one hand at the pivot point & the other hand at the end of the handle. That way you resist bending on the extension, you only want torsion. (Maybe that's already obvious to you)