Greetings! From the posts I've checked out hoping to find a solution to my unique problem, I came to believe there are many out there who are helpful and I am in the right place.

Also, I did check the other posts under headings having to do with transmission, noises, or anything of a vague title, and if my symptoms have already been capped on, then you'll just have to forgive me as I must have overlooked it.

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CAR: '91 Honda Accord (four door) Sedan LX (I do not know how many litres - maybe 2.1???) I have owned this car for three years now. Previous maintenance from previous owner most likely to be minimal and of the negligent sort.
Fuel Injector
Manual Drive - 5 gears
Approximate mileage: 1/4 million (VSS or something else is broken; speedometer doesn't work often - sporatic. Don't care to fix it).
Oil change/tire rotation every three months; recently drained, flushed and filled the coolant resevoir (six months ago); I keep brake, clutch (i think) and power steering fluid capped at all times - have never flushed any of these systems.
Had a new harmonic balance put in about three years ago. Belts in noticeably good condition. Also had (I believe it was) a CV axle put in shortly after that. I can't think of any other part in the tire well that has that rubber part that looks like a plunger - meant to keep grease in and grit out. If there is, then maybe it was that part instead.
Just for the hell of it, I put in a new gas filter about 1 1/2 - 2 years ago.
Replaced front brakes one year ago - no noticeable problem during this time.
Bought brand new tires about 14 months ago. Condition according to lead mechanic at garage - good for another winter. In good shape.
New air filter - six months in use now.
Definitely replaced one tire rod (possibly did the other one at the same time, I don't remember.) Have replaced both ball joints up to two years ago - tires don't 'wobble' when shaking the tires.
Accidentally 'dislocated' CV axle while replacing ball joint over a year ago; was able to get the three metal 'sliders' back into their groove. May have less grease inside, but have been driving for over a year like this with no noticeable problem.
The sway bar doesn't have any rubber 'washers' (bushings?) on the bolt in the three/four designated spots. Knowing sway bar isn't critical, I used old t-shirts and tied small strips wherever I could (around the loop of the bar and on the bolt). Been driving like this for over a year with no noticeable problem.

PROBLEM: While in gear, (doesn't matter what gear - symptom is same in all (! I don't recall reverse having the symptom, though)) applying gas immediately brings about a thumping noise from (I think) the engine compartment.

SYMPTOMS: Applying gas while in neutral doesn't produce this noise.
Car can be in motion, with any gear engaged (even at high speeds) but no noise so long as I don't give it gas.
Thumping is cyclic and proportional to the amount of gas/speed I give it (that is, the faster I go, the thumping's "rpm" increases AND gets slightly louder). Variation is small, though, and generally speaking, there's about 3-4 thumps per second.

CONDITIONS: Cold as hell - 0 degrees F
Just completely filled up this morning from bare empty - just before getting on the interstate. Problem/noise became definitely noticed 15 minutes later, though I thought I was hearing something a bit before that. I had the radio on somewhat loud.
Before filling up, I put in about one cup or a bit more of Seafoam into the tank. The Seafoam has been in my trunk for at least 6 months.
I used 87 octave gasoline.
(Afterwards - Surprisingly, my coolant needed to be capped off with at least a quart of antifreeze/water. This is surprising because in the three years of owning the car, it has almost always been capped and has never plummeted that much in between my checks. I probably checked the level a month ago or definitely six weeks ago and it was capped. I will check for leaks in the morning.)

DRIVING SYTLE: I am modest with my automobile, environmentally and conservatively conscience with a streak every once in a while to let it rip - I'll drop the gas to the floor and take the car up to the red in first and second and into third for the sheer joy in being a madman. The car is capable of going 115 mph on a 130 odo.
Also, I've been told that (though it is obviously hard on the car), it's good for it as it 'cleans' it out just like out exercising gets all the **** out of our bodies. Rarely do I take sharp turns, and I occasionally run-through stop signs when the coast is clear (don't worry - it's more a california roll-through than actually running it). Generally speaking, I treat my car well enough, but not well enough at times.

OTHER FACTS: Catalytic converter is original, as I believe most of everything else is that I haven't replaced.
Based on a sticker on the windshield, my guess is that for several years this car was mostly on the interstate/highway in its travels. (This would be with an owner before the previous owner).
Noise was noticed on my way going from home. Traveled at least 30-40 miles with noise before being able to get it home.
Going away from home, my car thus sat for three hours before heading back home. I do recall not hearing the noise right away; in fact, it wasn't until shortly after getting back onto the interstate that it came about, and it was also while I was demonstrating to my passenger stick-shift capabilities (that is, going 70 mph in 3rd gear so to get more power). Problem maybe temperature related? if not for the fact I drove the car in 3rd gear at 70mph Don't worry, I usually go to fifth.)

POSSIBILITIES: As mentioned to me, when I fueled up, ice may have gotten into my tank and is blocking the gas feed-line. Also, I may have pumped bad gas, or water got into my tank. Being that I had initially put in Seafoam (as I have several times in the past six months when filling up), and with recommendations from an individual to add fuel injector cleanser - I did - problem was still about for the next ten miles on my way home; therefore, I don't think it's any of the above possibilities. Before driving home, I did give the cleanser ten minutes in the tank while my car idled while I checked the air filter, the vacuum tube (taking it off the plug only caused the engine to fluctuate in its idling) the throttle, all fluids, tire rods, ball-joints, CV axles, sway bar, shocks...everything in the wheel well, it all looks intact and nothing noticeable stood out.
I'm inclined to think its due to a CV axle or a torque-transferring unit related to the CV axle, but I'm confused as to why..... if it is the 'power train', then why do I only hear the noise when I give it gas while only being in a gear??? Isn't the CV axle spinning with the wheel, and thus the power train spinning with the wheel, making it irrelevant whether I give it gas or not? (in other words, wouldn't the noise always be there regardless of my giving it gas while in gear?)

I sure hope somebody out there knows what the deal is, as this to me is another opportunity in having fun while pulling my hair out while working on my car. Also, worst case scenario, my fuel pump is bad - something I know I won't be able to fix - where at least I'll be able to proceed forward in getting this problem addressed.

My dad thinks I should call the guys that do the car talk show on national radio on Saturday and pose them this problem. What'cha think, and ...what'cha think?

Thanks for the considerations, fellas and fellahs. I'm much obliged.
Sincerely,
~Daniel

 

That is a pretty detailed post.

I would look at the motor and transmission mounts to see if any are torn.

The suspension/tires could also be making the noise.

There is an excellent video by ericthecarguy on how to find suspension noises that will give you a good place to start. Just do a google search for it.

It doesn't sound like a fuel pump problem to me.

 

I was finally able to get under the car this morning and I discovered what I believe is the steering gear and it's boot - the boot was torn. That would explain why my oil dropped to the lower level on the dipstick suddenly (especially since my oil change was a month ago and I always keep it capped/tapped). If I am correct, the steering gear is what the tie rods connect to; which leaves me stumped because apparently this unit isn't attached to the engine/transmission whatsoever (therefore, why the thumping noise only when giving gas while in a gear?) Also, it wouldn't explain why my antifreeze/coolant level dropped unexpectedly. However, seeing that the unit has 'gear' in its name, perhaps I'm wrong. Is this what's causing the noise?

This leaves me thinking that I didn't find the source of the problem, and instead have only found something else that needs my attention. Good thing the weekend is here )

QUESTION: Do I need a new steering gear if apparently the only thing that needs replacement is the boot (the plunger looking piece of plastic that covers the rod/contains the oil for the rod and ball in socket)? I doubt it considering the thumping sound is repetitious/cyclic and I don't see oil alleviating the symptoms. Don't mean to sound like a know-it-all; I'm just considering all possibilities.

PAhonda, thanks for responding. I'll look into your suggestions; mostly, I'm concerned about the lower ball joints. I didn't know I had these, and the only ball joints I had replaced were the top ones. From what I could see while under the car this morning, they were looking alright, and from when I checked the tires by grabbing them and shaking them, they didn't wobble. I'll get to these after I address the steering gear.

NOTE: I should have mentioned in the first post that this sound is irrelevant to whether I'm turning either left/right or going straight; after checking the CV axles, the boots are intact and everything looks okay, so I don't think it's the CV axles. Maybe they could use some more grease, though.

Thanks fellas and fellahs.
~Daniel

 

Noise at that high a frequency (4/sec) must be engine related. Look for damaged crankshaft pulley, distributor, alternator, etc. Somehing rotating is causing the noise.

good luck

 

Look at your other thread.

That torn boot should have absolutely nothing to do with engine oil or antifreeze.

Thumping noise when accelerating, makes me think of CV joints in the driveshafts. Check them out too.

 

The problem is definitely correlated to the engine becoming warm/hot, as after sitting through the night and letting a bottle of fuel injection cleanser dilute throughout the full tank, I took it out for a drive hoping it was nothing but water in the gas. The noise wasn't there as expected for the speed I was traveling and the gas I was giving it, but within five minutes or so, however, once my engine started to warm up, the noise came to the 'surface' and became more and more apparent.

I'm overwhelmed. Everything that I have fixed on this car was because it was obviously broken; here, I can't see anything definitely broken (I've even taken the boots off of the CV axle that I accidentally dislocated two summers ago hoping to see something, only to realize I'm ignorant of what to look for in a bad CV axle that still works), and from the suggestions I have received (thanks, by the way) and the possibilities I'm finding on the net, it's amassing to hours and hours just in researching to find out the know-what and the know-how before I even get to following on the procedures for each of the possibilities: bad upper/lower ball joints; bad engine mount; CV axle - inner or outer; plugged catalytic converter; valves hitting pistons; bad fuel (either originally or due to water/condensation); alternator; distributor; crankshaft.... On top of that,......pfffft. Guess my venting won't change anything. Just wish someone knew the definite solution.

Will keep at it. If I find the problem, I'll definitely post it to save the next guy grief. Just wanted to post that I think it relates to the engine becoming warmed up.

~Daniel

 

The problem with repairing a car over the web is that we can't see the car from here.

I understand the frustration, but sometimes the subtle nature of the sound can help a trained ear to know what to look for. Not only the sound, but whether or not it's accompanied by a klunk that you can feel.

It's not as simple as someone knowing "the definite solution". For almost every problem, there's many different POSSIBLE things that might cause it. Without driving the car firsthand, there's lots of possibilities we can suggest, and every one of them is for you to check & rule out. If an experienced mechanic would drive it, he might just rule out half of our suggestions because it "doesn't feel right". That's the part that we can't really hear or feel from here.

 

Only happens once the temp gauge gets to normal and under load?

Just gathering some facts, as Jim said....doing this without seeing, feeling and hearing the noise yourself is difficult. I'm trying to think of everything that is "in play" once the car goes into closed loop that might be the issue.

 

Thanks for responding, fellas.

Apparently, my suspicion that it correlated to my car becoming warm I now believe was/is coincidental. For awhile there, that just seemed to be the pattern/trend, as the noise wouldn't come around right away, even if I gunned it from the cold start. Now, it seems to be a matter of my driving that brings it about - not sure what it is, though. For instance, after replacing the PCV valve, the noise was gone long enough that I thought I solved the problem. Nope.

I messed around with the circuit somewhat enough to conclude that it isn't an air-intake/mixture problem. I say this on the observation that my PCM (which I gather is the 'motherboard', so to speak) apparently is working fine as it has been telling me code 17 for a long time (VSS), and after I deliberately disconnected the EGR circuit to the sensor in the exhaust manifold, I got that code - 6, if I remember correctly. So, on account that I'm not normally getting any indicators from the 'check engine' light, I believe it is working fine and so would alert me to any sensor problems if there were any. Hence, no problems with air/gas mix, etc...

Poorman212: that's what you meant by 'closed-loop', right? The PCM resorting to a default value instead of using what the sensors are computing for it? Unfortunately, with the VSS being out of action for at least the past three years, I can't monitor the fuel efficiency per tank, which would tell me something was amidst should I be getting poor fuel-economy. Perhaps I'll finally get around to getting this fix now that I am somewhat aware of where the transaxle is. We'll see.

I also took my distributor (not just the cap) off from the valve; it's looking okay, as the prongs look intact (not stripped or anything). In fact, they look almost brand new! Also, I started the engine without the valve on top, and for the very short while I let the car run, I got to look at everything and nothing seemed to be noticeably wrong. So, this is just a matter of elimination, one by one.

Being that the noise is cyclic but isn't always constant (even when giving gas - sometimes it just isn't there, but it usually is) I'm inclined to think that it doesn't have anything to do with the timing belt, alternator, distributor, or the crankshaft pulley (though I honestly don't know anything about the crankshaft pulley. Couldn't even tell you where it is. All I know is that it is revolving, and so it would probably make a constant cyclic symptom if it made one, right?). But I haven't cancelled out the transaxle, which in my opinion is the worst case scenario.

The front engine mount (after taking a closer look than initially) was needing replacement, and so I did that. A twenty minute job in removing two bolts ended up taking me a bit over five hours. Lol, and on top of that, it didn't solve the problem. Nonetheless, I'm glad to have a new mount there by the hood-latch as it was certain to become a problem soon, and though I looked closely at the other three mounts, I'll get in there again to see if perhaps the others are bad as well. My guess that if it is another engine mount that needs replacement, it'll be the one in the back of the compartment that holds up the transaxle/transmission.

I've gotten new spark plugs (one of the prongs that connects to the spark plug is missing it's insulating rubber - should I get a new one of these? For awhile there I was considering that perhaps the piston in this compartment doesn't get the spark to combust the air/gas mixture, and so perhaps it was knocking the other pistons off rhythm by not firing), PCV valve, outer tie rod for driver-side (this became unnecessary as the old one ended up looking fine - also, it wasn't causing the noise), and a CV axle (driver side) that I'll hopefully be able to replace tomorrow. So far, all my efforts and the noise is still there, and I do believe it's getting worse.
My first time in doing the CV axle on my own, so not sure what the outcome will be. (From what I've read and the muscle I have already put into that spindle nut with no result, I'm in for hell. And yes, I did pry up the clamped down bit of the nut ) I'm now inclined to think this is the source as I can now hear the common symptom for a CV axle going bad when I turn. Strange, cause it wasn't there before. Anyways, while I put this in I'll be able to get a closer look at the lower ball-joint, and replace that if it is looking bad.

JimBlake: Perhaps I never mentioned that the noise is always in connection to feeling it through the gas pedal and my seat. Now that the noise is louder, it sounds like it's on my side in the front, but I wouldn't rely on that as I'm partially deaf. And kluck is a good word, as it feels as though the second it snaps my car is going fall apart. Oh! Another noise - stopping makes a popping noise. Only heard it thrice, and this was before I put in the engine mount (only test-drove a few hundred feet afterwards, though). It was this popping noise that compelled me to get a new tie-rod, as this noise was identical to the noise I heard just before the other tie-rod broke in the middle of the road two summers ago.

Anyways, you men rock! Thanks for the support! Will let you know how the CV axle goes.
~Daniel

 

Search for v=jydxpsh13WQ on YouTube for a good video on how to do a CV joint.

Are you using a remanufactured CV joint? I thought that O'Reillys brand CV joints that were new were of good quality. A remanufactured CV joint can be hit or miss.