What "level" are luxury cars really on?
#1
11-05-2006, 01:04 PM
What "level" are luxury cars really on?
What a coincidence!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...400034_pf.html
How much are we willing to pay over the long haul to have that car of our dreams?
Into the Red With Luxury
$1,000 Headlights, $500 Mirrors, Maintenance Mayhem, All to Rule the Road
By Annys Shin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, November 5, 2006
The sticker on the window of a 2006 Range Rover Sport HSE parked inside Rosenthal Jaguar at Tysons Corner lists a few choice selling points: a child seat sensor, voice-activated controls and heated windshield washer jets -- all for an asking price of $59,350.
A more comprehensive list for buyers to consider might read something like this: $1,741 for a new headlight, $600 to replace a cracked windshield -- and the instant respect of valets and your little brother's friends.
Call it the unconscious cost-benefit analysis of the luxury car buyer.
It's a calculus more of us find ourselves making. Luxury vehicle sales in the United States have nearly doubled over the past decade, to 1.5 million in 2006, according to Edmunds.com, a consumer automotive Web site. About 50,000 new luxury models are registered in the Washington area every year, according to R.L. Polk & Co., a Michigan firm that tracks the auto industry.
Many owners quickly learn, however, that the higher cost of owning a premium ride doesn't end with the sticker price. There are fancy-but-finicky electrical gadgets and heftier insurance premiums because of expensive parts, according to auto quality and insurance experts.
And yet, luxury automakers such as Mercedes-Benz and BMW post record sales year after year, even as non-luxury brands close the gap in quality and reliability. "There really are no bad cars or trucks sold right now," said George C. Peterson, president of the marketing consultancy AutoPacific Inc. "The range in research ratings . . . has narrowed consistently for the past 20 years."
That raises an obvious question: Why are consumers choosing to upgrade to premium brands when they have more opportunities than ever to get the same quality for less money?
Market researchers say the leveling of the playing field in terms of quality is exactly what's driving people to luxury brands. Because there's less difference in overall quality, consumers find other reasons to buy a car, said Wes Brown, an analyst with Iceology, an auto industry consultancy in Los Angeles.
"There's an expectation of quality whether I'm spending $20,000 or $100,000," he said. "There are other things I'm looking for, like the power of the brand. Is it worth it to me? Do I like how it makes me feel about my station in life?" Brown said. "People nowadays are looking to have an emotional connection with their vehicles."
Ellis Covington, 37, who runs a mortgage company in Glen Burnie, owns two sedans made by Mercedes, a brand he has long revered.
"It's personal," he said of his preference for luxury vehicles. "It's what's ingrained in your mind."
Covington also owns a Hummer H2 he bought on impulse and has his eye on a third Mercedes.
"I say you only live once," he said. "You should do it."
Those Touchy Trimmings
Sleek styling and sophisticated features, such as 17-inch Belize wheels and a finished Burl Walnut dashboard, have always separated luxury cars from their more pedestrian cousins. But what increasingly sets luxury cars apart are technological gizmos such as adaptive cruise control (it adjusts the car's speed relative to the car in front of you), Bluetooth wireless technology (so you can leave that cellphone ear piece at home), and voice-activated controls (so you don't have to lift a finger).
Living on the cutting edge, however, comes at a price. The very gadgets that make luxury cars special can become gremlins that, in some makes, keep them in the shop. Electrical problems were partly to blame for Mercedes recalling 1.3 million cars last year.
"Electrical issues are the biggest bone of contention" and are most often a source of mechanical glitches with luxury cars these days, especially in non-Japanese brands, said David Champion, senior director of Consumer Reports' auto test division.
This year marked the first time that luxury car brands didn't dominate the vehicle-dependability study by consumer research firm J.D. Powers & Associates. Toyota's luxury brand Lexus was first, and Cadillac was fourth. The rest of the spots were claimed by Toyota, Mercury and Buick, said Neal Oddes, director of product research and analysis.
"The extra stuff you don't have to have in a car -- that's what's giving [owners] grief," said Gus Mohammadi, owner of Eurosport Motors in Rockville, which specializes in Porsche repairs. "There's no essential major problems with them. It's the little stuff people paid a lot of money for."
At least owners of new luxury vehicles don't have to pay for fixing many of these glitches during the first few years. BMW, Mercedes, and Jaguar (a division of Ford Motor Co.) cover repairs during the first four years or 50,000 miles. BMW also covers routine maintenance, such as changing the oil and windshield wipers.
Generous warranty policies have helped luxury automakers counter the perception that their vehicles prohibitively costly to own.
Of course, no matter how good the warranty, it doesn't shield owners from higher insurance premiums, said car experts and luxury vehicle owners.
According to the Highway Loss Data Institute, an arm of the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, a large number of luxury models tend to have higher losses from collisions because their parts are more expensive to replace. On a 2005 Jaguar XJ, for instance, a replacement xenon headlight with a washer costs $1,041, not including labor. The price tag for a new heated power mirror is $562. A fender bender with a luxury car can get even pricier if the collision damages the car's adaptive cruise control, which is behind the front bumper. The IIHS estimates a new system for the Jaguar XJ costs an average of $3,239, again not including labor.
In rare cases, premium automakers turn out a lemon, and when they do, they face the wrath of the luxury lemon owner, who may have more resources to press a claim.
Wallace Ridley of Upper Marlboro had owned a Mercedes, so his expectations were high when he bought a 2000 Jaguar XK8 convertible. The car came from a dealer, had 25,000 miles on it and was still under warranty.
Within the first 10,000 miles of owning it, he started to hear a noise in the engine. Every time he brought the car in for scheduled maintenance, he asked the dealer to look into it. Every time he was told the noise was normal.
The noise continued to get worse. A few days after the warranty expired, the tensioners on the timing chains -- a critical engine part -- came loose. Jaguar would not repair them, so Ridley paid $2,000 to fix them. About 35,000 miles later, the timing chains broke at a cost of $5,000.
Ridley believed the chains would not have broken had the dealer addressed the loose tensioners.
He looked into suing under state lemon laws, which are modeled after the federal Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, which requires manufacturers of consumer products to live up to their warranties. The Maryland lemon law applies to new vehicles or ones transferred to another person while still under warranty. A vehicle is considered a lemon if it can't be fixed after a reasonable number of attempts, which can be as few as one, depending on the problem.
Getting a lawyer involved often gets automakers' attention faster than suing on your own, lemon law attorneys say.
"It puts [consumers] in a position equal to the manufacturer in bargaining," said Craig Kimmel, a Philadelphia attorney who has handled thousands of auto cases, including in Maryland.
In July, Ridley chose t
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...400034_pf.html
How much are we willing to pay over the long haul to have that car of our dreams?
Into the Red With Luxury
$1,000 Headlights, $500 Mirrors, Maintenance Mayhem, All to Rule the Road
By Annys Shin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, November 5, 2006
The sticker on the window of a 2006 Range Rover Sport HSE parked inside Rosenthal Jaguar at Tysons Corner lists a few choice selling points: a child seat sensor, voice-activated controls and heated windshield washer jets -- all for an asking price of $59,350.
A more comprehensive list for buyers to consider might read something like this: $1,741 for a new headlight, $600 to replace a cracked windshield -- and the instant respect of valets and your little brother's friends.
Call it the unconscious cost-benefit analysis of the luxury car buyer.
It's a calculus more of us find ourselves making. Luxury vehicle sales in the United States have nearly doubled over the past decade, to 1.5 million in 2006, according to Edmunds.com, a consumer automotive Web site. About 50,000 new luxury models are registered in the Washington area every year, according to R.L. Polk & Co., a Michigan firm that tracks the auto industry.
Many owners quickly learn, however, that the higher cost of owning a premium ride doesn't end with the sticker price. There are fancy-but-finicky electrical gadgets and heftier insurance premiums because of expensive parts, according to auto quality and insurance experts.
And yet, luxury automakers such as Mercedes-Benz and BMW post record sales year after year, even as non-luxury brands close the gap in quality and reliability. "There really are no bad cars or trucks sold right now," said George C. Peterson, president of the marketing consultancy AutoPacific Inc. "The range in research ratings . . . has narrowed consistently for the past 20 years."
That raises an obvious question: Why are consumers choosing to upgrade to premium brands when they have more opportunities than ever to get the same quality for less money?
Market researchers say the leveling of the playing field in terms of quality is exactly what's driving people to luxury brands. Because there's less difference in overall quality, consumers find other reasons to buy a car, said Wes Brown, an analyst with Iceology, an auto industry consultancy in Los Angeles.
"There's an expectation of quality whether I'm spending $20,000 or $100,000," he said. "There are other things I'm looking for, like the power of the brand. Is it worth it to me? Do I like how it makes me feel about my station in life?" Brown said. "People nowadays are looking to have an emotional connection with their vehicles."
Ellis Covington, 37, who runs a mortgage company in Glen Burnie, owns two sedans made by Mercedes, a brand he has long revered.
"It's personal," he said of his preference for luxury vehicles. "It's what's ingrained in your mind."
Covington also owns a Hummer H2 he bought on impulse and has his eye on a third Mercedes.
"I say you only live once," he said. "You should do it."
Those Touchy Trimmings
Sleek styling and sophisticated features, such as 17-inch Belize wheels and a finished Burl Walnut dashboard, have always separated luxury cars from their more pedestrian cousins. But what increasingly sets luxury cars apart are technological gizmos such as adaptive cruise control (it adjusts the car's speed relative to the car in front of you), Bluetooth wireless technology (so you can leave that cellphone ear piece at home), and voice-activated controls (so you don't have to lift a finger).
Living on the cutting edge, however, comes at a price. The very gadgets that make luxury cars special can become gremlins that, in some makes, keep them in the shop. Electrical problems were partly to blame for Mercedes recalling 1.3 million cars last year.
"Electrical issues are the biggest bone of contention" and are most often a source of mechanical glitches with luxury cars these days, especially in non-Japanese brands, said David Champion, senior director of Consumer Reports' auto test division.
This year marked the first time that luxury car brands didn't dominate the vehicle-dependability study by consumer research firm J.D. Powers & Associates. Toyota's luxury brand Lexus was first, and Cadillac was fourth. The rest of the spots were claimed by Toyota, Mercury and Buick, said Neal Oddes, director of product research and analysis.
"The extra stuff you don't have to have in a car -- that's what's giving [owners] grief," said Gus Mohammadi, owner of Eurosport Motors in Rockville, which specializes in Porsche repairs. "There's no essential major problems with them. It's the little stuff people paid a lot of money for."
At least owners of new luxury vehicles don't have to pay for fixing many of these glitches during the first few years. BMW, Mercedes, and Jaguar (a division of Ford Motor Co.) cover repairs during the first four years or 50,000 miles. BMW also covers routine maintenance, such as changing the oil and windshield wipers.
Generous warranty policies have helped luxury automakers counter the perception that their vehicles prohibitively costly to own.
Of course, no matter how good the warranty, it doesn't shield owners from higher insurance premiums, said car experts and luxury vehicle owners.
According to the Highway Loss Data Institute, an arm of the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, a large number of luxury models tend to have higher losses from collisions because their parts are more expensive to replace. On a 2005 Jaguar XJ, for instance, a replacement xenon headlight with a washer costs $1,041, not including labor. The price tag for a new heated power mirror is $562. A fender bender with a luxury car can get even pricier if the collision damages the car's adaptive cruise control, which is behind the front bumper. The IIHS estimates a new system for the Jaguar XJ costs an average of $3,239, again not including labor.
In rare cases, premium automakers turn out a lemon, and when they do, they face the wrath of the luxury lemon owner, who may have more resources to press a claim.
Wallace Ridley of Upper Marlboro had owned a Mercedes, so his expectations were high when he bought a 2000 Jaguar XK8 convertible. The car came from a dealer, had 25,000 miles on it and was still under warranty.
Within the first 10,000 miles of owning it, he started to hear a noise in the engine. Every time he brought the car in for scheduled maintenance, he asked the dealer to look into it. Every time he was told the noise was normal.
The noise continued to get worse. A few days after the warranty expired, the tensioners on the timing chains -- a critical engine part -- came loose. Jaguar would not repair them, so Ridley paid $2,000 to fix them. About 35,000 miles later, the timing chains broke at a cost of $5,000.
Ridley believed the chains would not have broken had the dealer addressed the loose tensioners.
He looked into suing under state lemon laws, which are modeled after the federal Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, which requires manufacturers of consumer products to live up to their warranties. The Maryland lemon law applies to new vehicles or ones transferred to another person while still under warranty. A vehicle is considered a lemon if it can't be fixed after a reasonable number of attempts, which can be as few as one, depending on the problem.
Getting a lawyer involved often gets automakers' attention faster than suing on your own, lemon law attorneys say.
"It puts [consumers] in a position equal to the manufacturer in bargaining," said Craig Kimmel, a Philadelphia attorney who has handled thousands of auto cases, including in Maryland.
In July, Ridley chose t
#2
11-05-2006, 09:40 PM
RE: What "level" are luxury cars really on?
2003+ used Honda accord with V6 costs and average of 16k+ for one in my area...when I bought my CL type S it was CHEAPER than any 2003+V6 accord with similar milage on it..so needless to say I got it....
Look on BMW 325i owners that get owned by 290HP Acura CL....priceless
Look on BMW 325i owners that get owned by 290HP Acura CL....priceless
#3
11-05-2006, 10:09 PM
RE: What "level" are luxury cars really on?
Here's another sobering link on the same subject at Forbes dot com (if you get the main page, click on "skip intro" in upper right to see an article entitled "Over-engineering 101"):
http://www.forbes.com/global/2004/1220/025.html
If "cheap" means that 92 Accords have been a fraction of the cost to maintain compared to 92 luxury vehicles (particularly European vehicles), then yes, they are indeed built "cheap".
It's quite amazing how mass-marketing techniques have got people so bamboozled that they cannot recognize a good thing even when they own it. They (I) can often be convinced to give up a good thing to acquire a bad thing.
http://www.forbes.com/global/2004/1220/025.html
If "cheap" means that 92 Accords have been a fraction of the cost to maintain compared to 92 luxury vehicles (particularly European vehicles), then yes, they are indeed built "cheap".
It's quite amazing how mass-marketing techniques have got people so bamboozled that they cannot recognize a good thing even when they own it. They (I) can often be convinced to give up a good thing to acquire a bad thing.
#4
11-09-2006, 06:13 PM
RE: What "level" are luxury cars really on?
It's funny how so many 2-3 year old European cars are at used car lots. Wonder if they are lease returns or younger people who didn't account for the upkeep on the car. Hey, if you can afford the upkeep why not? Like the guy said in the article, you only have one life. If it's what u want and one is willing to pay go for it. I, personally, will never own one. I'll just borrow my parents and let them pay for the upkeep and insurance = )
I must vouch for jaguar. My dad had a transmission replaced under warranty. About 6 months out of warranty it was going out again. They replaced it and gave him a rental car all free. I guess he had better luck than that person in the article.
I must vouch for jaguar. My dad had a transmission replaced under warranty. About 6 months out of warranty it was going out again. They replaced it and gave him a rental car all free. I guess he had better luck than that person in the article.
#5
11-13-2006, 05:13 AM
RE: What "level" are luxury cars really on?
Jaguar are not the best example of European engineering. Certainly the small Jags like the X-Type. These are essentially built on a the Ford Mondeo platform, which is actually a good car.
For some reason transmission problems are common. My neighbour had his repaired at least once on the warranty. He was treated very well.
You just do not expect these problems on luxury cars.
He now owns a 2005 330Cd BMW, which he really likes and has not had any problems with.
For some reason transmission problems are common. My neighbour had his repaired at least once on the warranty. He was treated very well.
You just do not expect these problems on luxury cars.
He now owns a 2005 330Cd BMW, which he really likes and has not had any problems with.
#6
11-13-2006, 09:07 PM
RE: What "level" are luxury cars really on?
ORIGINAL: malcqv
Jaguar are not the best example of European engineering. Certainly the small Jags like the X-Type. These are essentially built on a the Ford Mondeo platform, which is actually a good car.
For some reason transmission problems are common. My neighbour had his repaired at least once on the warranty. He was treated very well.
You just do not expect these problems on luxury cars.
He now owns a 2005 330Cd BMW, which he really likes and has not had any problems with.
Jaguar are not the best example of European engineering. Certainly the small Jags like the X-Type. These are essentially built on a the Ford Mondeo platform, which is actually a good car.
For some reason transmission problems are common. My neighbour had his repaired at least once on the warranty. He was treated very well.
You just do not expect these problems on luxury cars.
He now owns a 2005 330Cd BMW, which he really likes and has not had any problems with.
#7
11-14-2006, 10:08 AM
RE: What "level" are luxury cars really on?
Slightly off topic but it makes you wonder. It seems the Americans do not get on too well with Euro cars, likewise the Europeans do not get on with American.
I on the other hand differ. I love the American muscle cars of the mid-late 60's and early 70's. There are quite a few good ones now.
I love the latest Mustang and quite like the Chrysler 300C.
Looks like the Japanese are favoured in both camps US and Euro.
I on the other hand differ. I love the American muscle cars of the mid-late 60's and early 70's. There are quite a few good ones now.
I love the latest Mustang and quite like the Chrysler 300C.
Looks like the Japanese are favoured in both camps US and Euro.
#8
11-14-2006, 10:51 AM
RE: What "level" are luxury cars really on?
european cars are not as reliable as japanese cars...why in the world would one buy a more expensive less reliable car is beyond me.........even with trans problems acuras are still more reliable than any mercedes, bmw, jag
#10
11-15-2006, 05:24 AM
RE: What "level" are luxury cars really on?
YeuEmMaiMai, I guess here in Europe and the UK we do not have Acuras so do not have that choice. We do have Lexus and they are becoming very popular. Lets face it no car is quite as reliable as Japanese they are very very good at reliability.
I should point out one or two surveys here in the UK are putting Skoda above Subaru,Mazda, Honda, Nissan and Toyota whose brands are always in the top ten.
Thing is Mercedes, BMW and Audi have been around for sometime whereas Lexus (although Toyota) have not. People tend to stick to a particular brand. As I mentioned earlier my neighbour has a BMW 330Cd and has had zero problems and gets better gas mileage than my 4 pot Accord ever got, and would leave it on the road and track w/o trying.
The Germans do make some superb cars. Porsche for instance I would argue make the best car in the world (and trust me I hate to say that). Carrera S, outstanding performance, superb handling good looks and can be used every day to boot. Of course cars are very subjective, for instance if you aren't interested in them then a Kia will do the job just fine IMHO.
I have owned European and Japanese cars, some of which were manufactured in the UK and US. Fords, Opels, Rovers, Renault, Swedish (built in Holland) Italian and German. Only one could be considered Luxury/sports and I did have electrical problems with it, but then it is nearly 24 years old! Point is all these cars Euro and alike have been excellent cars. They have not let me down. Maybe I have been lucky maybe it has to do with maintenance, though I have not been good at that on all the cars.
As for Gas, then people who buy luxury cars probably don't really care about gas prices, we have had ridiculous gas prices for as long as I have been driving (since 1981).
I should point out one or two surveys here in the UK are putting Skoda above Subaru,Mazda, Honda, Nissan and Toyota whose brands are always in the top ten.
Thing is Mercedes, BMW and Audi have been around for sometime whereas Lexus (although Toyota) have not. People tend to stick to a particular brand. As I mentioned earlier my neighbour has a BMW 330Cd and has had zero problems and gets better gas mileage than my 4 pot Accord ever got, and would leave it on the road and track w/o trying.
The Germans do make some superb cars. Porsche for instance I would argue make the best car in the world (and trust me I hate to say that). Carrera S, outstanding performance, superb handling good looks and can be used every day to boot. Of course cars are very subjective, for instance if you aren't interested in them then a Kia will do the job just fine IMHO.
I have owned European and Japanese cars, some of which were manufactured in the UK and US. Fords, Opels, Rovers, Renault, Swedish (built in Holland) Italian and German. Only one could be considered Luxury/sports and I did have electrical problems with it, but then it is nearly 24 years old! Point is all these cars Euro and alike have been excellent cars. They have not let me down. Maybe I have been lucky maybe it has to do with maintenance, though I have not been good at that on all the cars.
As for Gas, then people who buy luxury cars probably don't really care about gas prices, we have had ridiculous gas prices for as long as I have been driving (since 1981).