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Timing Belt Tensioner Installation Warning

  #11  
Old 12-06-2008, 07:30 AM
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Default RE: Timing Belt Tensioner Installation Warning

Oil as the cause for starter noise would make sense. The distributor is right above the starter and the distributor leaks a little oil constantly (through shaft seal not oring) which drips onto the starter. I plan to pull distributor (for easier access to starter) and inspect it also. I may try to refurbish the bearing end seals to slow/stop this leak.

thanks
 
  #12  
Old 12-07-2008, 05:03 PM
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Default RE: Timing Belt Tensioner Installation Warning

My Accord made the noise after the engine started[/i] when it was very cold and has not since. I don't know if I have two problems as the noise that day had to be a slipping belt for Alternator,PS or AC. I think the oil on the starter drive should also give you slow performance when it is hot if I remember right. I will keep checking back on you Texas Honda. For now it is too cold for me to do much with mine and if the noise is gone I am happy. I did get a lot of oil from a valve cover leak over the starter when my car overheated. I wonder if just fixing your oil leak will fix the problem without cleaning the starter. There is another Honda Forums site that you may want to check as I know one of the two has a break down of doing the internal distrubtor seal also.
 
  #13  
Old 12-07-2008, 06:40 PM
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Default RE: Timing Belt Tensioner Installation Warning

I found a very nice set of pics on another site describing distributor shaft end seal replacement. See following link:

http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2214402

I removed my distributor and opened today to see whether it was worth replacing the seal ($16.95 + shipping from partstrain.com). It looked OK. Despite trying to be careful, I managed to install distributor 180 deg off and got a no-start. I damaged (sensor error from distributor)the same distributor w/ same stunt earlier and had to repair by straightening internal frame. I'm hoping I didn't do same thing again, but will check when I replace the seal.

regards
 
  #14  
Old 12-14-2008, 07:32 AM
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Default RE: Timing Belt Tensioner Installation Warning

I removed my distributor and starter, replaced the lower shaft seal in the distributor (Ishino) and disassembled the stater motor to inspect.

I found no marks on the stator or rotor to indicate contact. Not surprising since good ball bearings support either end of the shaft. I cleaned and polished the commutator and brush assembly and reassembled. The gearbox and bendix appeared to be in good shape. I could see plenty of grease and it spun easily and extended easily. Problem may be in the gearbox, but I decided not to tear into it.

I re-installed everything and starter was unaffected (still occasionally screeching). I've decided to drive until the screeching either gets worse or starter fails. Right now my starter procedure of three starter bumps instead of direct engagement minimizes noise.

Distributor shaft seal works good. No oil dribbling through the distributor. There as a 1/4" layer of oil/crud on the top of trans housing under the starter from the oil stream. This may be last source of oil drip I have, except perhaps some weepage around oil pan, which could be from the distributor drainage. Time will tell.

Regards
 
  #15  
Old 01-28-2009, 08:10 AM
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Default RE: Timing Belt Tensioner Installation Warning

Excellent post Texas Honda!

My issues are a tad different but worth a full explaination here. I learned a valuable lesson because I tried to save some money and bought a timing belt kit off ebay from The Import Experts rather then to use OEM Honda parts.

Here is the pictures of the problems I experienced.

The bearing in question with labels to describe placement;



Here is the face of my engine where the bearing goes with red arrows depicting the Pivot Boss molded into the oil pump housing.



Here is a picture showing a side view with a white plastic rod simulating the pivot post on the engine and the bearing installed over it.



The final adjustment of the tensioner is made after the covers are installed so you will never notice any problem until you fire up the engine.

Here is where my problems began and ended. The bearing on the left is the OEM honda one removed from my engine and the one on the right is the one provided in the kit from PCI (Preferred Components Inc) that I bought from the Ebay seller.

Note the difference in how much more face surface the new bearing has compared to the OEM one and also how much closer the bottom edge of the bearing is to the adjusting bracket.



After getting all the covers reinstalled and doing the final tension adjustment I fired up my engine and smoke began pouring out from under the covers. Something was seriously wrong.

We took it all appart again and could not figure it out. My mechanic insisted that the bearing was frozen and possibly defective. Only after removing the bearing and seeing that it was spinning freely did we notice a mark on the face of the pivot stud where this bearing had been pinched. It became very clear the bearing in the kit being wider and closer to the engine surface was the cause of the pinching.

The new belt was toasted and I had to drive to Honda for a new one. They did not have the correct bearing in stock but we did notice the stud itself was much taller then it needed to be so we ground it down so the PCI bearing would not get pinched against it.

We put all back together again and the engine was fine and still is.

I brought all of this to the attention of PCI who at first was very difficult to deal with and not at all receptive to my findings. PCI instructed me to contact the distributor/seller, The Import Experts.

They did agree to reimburse a small portion of the additional expenses I incurred and they claim they have replaced the offending bearing with the correct one in this kit #TS26187.

It has been almost 4 months and I have seen no refund yet.

My mechanic spent twice as long doing this belt replacement and was very upset with the entire situation. He did nothing wrong except to install non OEM parts that were not correct for the engine.

My efforts to save a few dollars ended up costing me twice as much as it should have. A mistake I will never make again.

I don't know the propper way of inserting photos directly into the thread so if someone can help me or make the change I will appreciate it.

Gary
 

Last edited by Gary L; 02-09-2009 at 08:29 AM.
  #16  
Old 01-28-2009, 07:37 PM
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Default RE: Timing Belt Tensioner Installation Warning

GaryL Nice post. A belated thanks for use of your picture which I pinched from an earlier post of yours. I don't share your concern w/ aftermarket products despite your experience. I've used aftermarket tensioners, belts, and other parts w/o problems. The tensioner I purchased on ebay turned out to be a Koyo, which I believe is OEM manufacturer, so I was lucky.

My starter has quit screeching altogether. I suspect, but can't be sure, that the static timing was retarded too much (~8 deg BTDC) compared to 15 BTDC spec requirement. After replacing the shaft seal, I decided to check timing and found I was way off. I reset timing and so far the screech has not reappeared.

regards
 
  #18  
Old 04-19-2009, 07:37 PM
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I've never had any problems w/ aftermarket parts. GMB water pumps seem to work fine. I've used timing belts by ContiTech and Gates also.

This weekend I replaced water pump on my son's Acura 2.5 TL. I bought an OEM water pump and belt because this car has been a frequent source of problems. I was replacing the water pump because of an intermittent squeal that I could not trace to any of 3 accessory drive belts or accessories. After replacing water pump and checking tensioner bearing (good), squeal was still present. I'm now suspicious it may be a cold-slipping harmonic balancer/crankshaft pulley. When warm the squeal goes away, at least so far. This car had one earlier failure of this component.

good luck
 
  #19  
Old 05-27-2009, 04:53 AM
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hi great info I wish I had read it earlier and also that the same advice was not in my manual because I had some dramas doing my timing belt and it would have not had happened if i had read your thread.
 
  #20  
Old 08-20-2009, 06:11 PM
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Default tensioner warning

Texas Honda,
Much obliged! 96 2.2 non-vtec; w/pump died; changed belts also, but could not figure out why Tbelt was so loose. It was the pivot not on the tit! Also packed both tensioners w/new grease. Good thing, the Tbelt tensioner was dry. It was a little tricky getting the ball brg cage out; had to pop it out, as the brgs hold it in. Re-tensioned belt and it looks OK now. Both Honda factory and Haynes manuals don't even mention how to install tensioners! Amazing. Thanks again!
Jim
 

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