Car: 2002 CG6 Accord EX F23a4 AUTO – 156k

Problem;

First time - Started early spring, the car would shut off after running over an hour in hot weather. First time was under load (going up I-70 towards Vail). Felt like I ran out of gas, the engine just went completely unresponsive. No Check engine light, no power. Pulled over checked fuses then got in the car and moved the key to the ON position and could hear my fuel pump charge so I thought I have fuel. 30 Mins later the car started up like nothing happened.

Second Time - 2 weeks later after an hour in rush traffic through Denver it stalled out near boulder same story as the first one.

First Repair - Checked the Fuel Pump Relay which I have heard is a weak point on the 6th gen accords. The solder joint was worn very thin. Replaced.

Third Time - Happened again same as first two times.

Second Repair - Checked the Ignition Switch, it looked crappy so I went ahead and replaced it.

Fourth Time - Same as 1,2 & 3 BUT this time after I pulled the car over the starter would not even crank over the engine. It felt like a flat battery, which is impossible because the battery is only 4 months old, all I got was the initial “click” then nothing. Checked ALL fuses everything looked fine to me. Called a tow because I thought it was much worse this time. Tow showed up, I tried to crank it again and what do you know… Started right up.

Third Repair – Ignition Control Module. Not sure how I could have tested the old one when it failed. I am usually alone when it goes out and the testing procedure is a two person job. So I just replaced it.


So my question is, what else could be causing this? It has to be something under the hood because it does this only when HOT. Furthermore it has to have control over the starter (or does it??). I don’t think it’s my fuel pump because 1) its newer than the car (high flow for a turbo that I had), 2) it’s sitting in relatively cool gas all day and 3) It wouldn’t cause my starter not to crank (only happened the last time). The distributor head and cap looked good ( as good as good can be for 150k+ miles) no cracks no carbon trails. I have never altered any under hood wiring harnesses and checked those that I had tapped on the ecu for the Fuel Management System I had used (over 50k miles ago, car is NA now).. I DO get an OCCASIONAL CEL P0420 or something like that, it’s a Cat inefficiency code, which I am fairly positive is due to an exhaust leak between bank 1 & 2 that I have had a hell of a time tracking down, this however preceded the issue of HOT shutdown.

Anyone else had this happen? Suggestions?

 

While I don’t want to just replace parts for the unfun of it, I am in a very critical cost vs. downtime relationship right now. If this was a BMW and an ICM cost 1000 I’d test test test… but at 60 bucks it was easier for me to just pop the old one out and throw a new one in. I like to consider myself fairly skilled at working on my car and have access to a full shop. I cannot afford to have an unrecoverable breakdown right now in terms of time and commitments.

Also, I did Check the Ignition Switch and got what I believed to be a faulty reading so that is why I replaced it. I will be driving it into the mountains again here soon and it will undoubtedly get hot so we will see if it reproduces. Couple extra tidbits of info; I cleaned the EGR Ports and Intake Chamber recently which involved removing the fuel rail. While there I tested the pressure which proved to be at if not slightly above spec and injectors looked fine. Before replacing the ICM I did notice some very minimal bogging at idle (like if you were to turn your blower on to 4 right away same time your hit your high beams) and when going through the rev range I noticed a little hesitation particularly around 1800rpm and 3000 rpm. After the ICM replacement I have not picked up on this… Could just be the “butt dyno” experience and maybe me being hopeful… I guess We’ll see

I guess when I’m up north next I will have to grab a timing light from my shop and take it with me on this next trip.

 

Unless I missed it from all the detail you listed, I don't see any mention regarding checking the coil. Refer to these links for some info.

Starting Problems

Part 1 -Honda Igniter, Ignition Coil Test (1.5L, 1.6L, 2.2L, 2.3L)

 

Thanks Redbull Thats what I was looking for! We'll see if I can get it to reproduce (unless I fixed the problem that should be pretty easy)

Question though. I was looking through the wiring diagrams for the ICM and related components and I didnt see a direct connection to the starter. Why did the starter not even respond the last time it stalled out? Is the ICM sending a safe code to the computer inhibiting the starter? Shouldn't something like that trigger a CEL?

 

This link explains how the coil/ICM/ECM works together and is a little better reference for your model year than the previous link I gave you.

Part 1 -Honda Accord, Prelude Distributor Test

The starter is part of the starting system, whereas the ICM is part of the ignition system (see attached pics).

12 volt power in the circuit must have been interrupted to the starter the last time you stalled. Ignition switch -> A/T gear position switch -> starter, which wouldn't necessarily cause a CEL (for example, no CEL in the situation of dead battery, no power. I may be over simplifying things). Your car does have the Immobilizer system in play too.

 

Thanks,
I’m gonna look into the link here soon. I’ve got to go through rush hour Denver traffic today and its hot out so we’ll see if I get a stall (Im crossing my fingers). It was pretty strange, it died at a light off the freeway. When I cranked it, it sounded like the battery was low (you know real slow starter sound) then I pushed it off the side of the road (well not off but you know haha) and checked the battery terminals for corrosion. Not much was present, So I disconnected the battery and let it sit for 10 mins while I checked all the fuses. Then when I reconnected the battery it wouldn’t even turn over, the starter only clicked once (dead battery sound) standard lights on dash. Had the battery tested all is good. I thought my starter had gotten jammed or given out. Then after it sat about 45 mins voilà. I hope its not the immobilizer…

 

I doubt it has to do with the Immobilizer. You would have seen the green flashing key light on the dash.

 

I did pull the starter fuse / relay in the huse box under the hood to check it and the terminals. Perhaps I caused the problem with the starter by messing with the fuses.

 

Drove through rush hour traffic yesterday car was nice and hot and did not reproduce the original problem!

Hopefully the ICM was the ticket. I will keep you all posted. Thanks again redbull-1

 

Well Now i've got a NEW ISSUE!

So I haven’t had it stall out yet when its hot since replacing the ICM. Today will be the real test of that. But I did have a new problem arise on Saturday Night.

After driving for an hour I got to Fort Collins, started going through the town and got near downtown. Once there at a traffic light I noticed the car was idling a little rougher than normal. And occasionally would dip and recover rapidly. Next block I notice a couple blips of hesitation (not reving but dropping out) next block it hesitated real hard and was having a rough time idling. (Acceleration seemed fine) The CEL came on and it went into a sub 3k rpm limp mode. I pulled into the autozone about a block away to get the code read and notice I missed closing time by 10 mins…..

I needed the car to be able to drive so reluctantly I reset the ECU myself and the CEL hasn’t returned yet. So far I haven’t had the same issue, but I have notice my idle is rougher than normal, but it’s so unnoticeable that no one else would feel it but me.

I was planning on taking my car down to Durango tomorrow (6.5 hr drive) but I’m very worried about breaking down in the middle of bumfuk Colorado. I wish I could have read that code… Ideas?

The main relay has been replaced, the ignition switch has been replaced, the ignitor has been replaced... that leave the coil, plugs and ecu...