you might want to chk fuel pressure first thing in the morning when car does not start..

spray some carb cleaner in the throttle body . see if car fires up .
if pressure is ok,, chk for spark ..Usually electrical components for the most part fail when hot,( engine or ambient temp ) .

did you say you replaced the main relay ??

if chk engine lite is NOT on when you turn the key on,, chk this out..

http://techauto.awardspace.com/ecu.html

you can also scroll up to ( ignition problem ) and diagnose ,,if no spark,,

 

This thread is getting long, so I reread and kind of summarized everything below. I put items I have questions about or should be done in bold.

No, starts are due to lack of spark or lack of fuel.

For spark testing that you have done so far...
1. No CEL = no bad sensor
2. Maintenance items - replaced distributor cap and spark plugs, replace rotor and spark plug wires
3. Not sure if you replaced valve cover gasket and upper seals
4. 12V on blk/yel wire to distributor = good ignition switch
5. The timing light flashed when the car started, but did the timing light flash when it wasn't starting?

For fuel...
1. You said that you hear the fuel pump prime for ~2 seconds when you first turn the key to the II position. Right? A bad fuel pump can still make noise, so that hasn't been ruled out yet.
2. Smelled gas when there was no start = injectors are opening.
3. Smelling gas doesn't mean that you have proper fuel pressure. Pick up a can of starting fluid. Remove black intake tube to the throttle body, and spray into the throttle body while someone tries to start the car with the gas pedal pushed down slightly. Let us know if the car starts when you spray in there

 

if chk engine lite is NOT on when key is turned on ,, car will NOT start ( unless it is a bad bulb )

 

First off, for PAHonda...I have NOT replaced that main fuel pump relay yet.

I am leaning more towards fuel now too because of course I just went home again at lunch time today...fired right up 3 or 4 times in a row. It did stumble just a little bit the first time right when it initially fired up but I had pumped the pedal a few times earlier this morning trying to get it fired up so there may have just been a little extra fuel in there flooding it a little bit...?


I have not replaced the rotor or wires yet. I did do the plugs, cap, upper plug seals and valve cover gasket. I pulled that plug wire off too and after it's probably ran a total of 5-10 minutes there is still no oil on that plug wire(it's completely dry).

I'm pretty sure that the CEL just stayed on when I jumped that little connector and didn't flash or anything at all.

There is 12V going to the distributor and coil when the key is in on and start position.

The timing light flashed fine obviously when it was running on each wire. I still haven't been able to see if it flashes when it doesn't start because it will only "not start" when I'm at home alone right before I leave for work early in the morning

I'll try and get someone over at my house early to help me out.

I do hear the pump turn on for a couple seconds when I turn the key on.

I do smell fuel after trying to start or I just run it for a second and smell down in the spark plug tube.

I'll get the new rotor and wires put on and spray some starting fluid in there tomorrow morning and see if I can get it going.

If this get's it going, I'll go ahead and get a new fuel pump relay and report back.

If this does not do it, maybe try the ignition control module???


Thank you guys again so much.

Donnie

 

How can I check fuel pressure? Is there a special gauge I have to buy? I may be able to rent one...

 

Thanks for clearing some of those points up. As desert asked, does the check engine light turn on for about two seconds when you are listening for the fuel pump to prime?

My point was that your fuel pump may turn on and sound like it is working, but may not be pumping any fuel. The main relay would not be the problem, but it could be the fuel pump.

I think at this point you need to figure out if you the problem is due to lack of spark or lack of fuel.

Lack of spark is the easiest to figure out, since you have a timing light. If the timing light is flashing like normal when your car is not starting, then spark is good. Let us know what you find.

For the fuel side of testing, the simplest test that you can do is use the starting fluid.

Using the starting fluid like I described in #3 in my previous post of the fuel test will only verify that your are lacking fuel if the car starts running while you spray fuel in there.

I wrote a procedure to make your own fuel pressure gauge. See https://www.hondaaccordforum.com/for...ad.php?t=17408 That will definitively tell you if the fuel pump is putting out enough gas to the rail.

 

PA,

Thank you so much! I'm so sorry if I came across rude in the first sentence of that post 2 posts back...I meant for it to be for deserthonda cause he posted first and I had a lot of points to cover lol.

Anyway, I'm home now and I've been trying to get it to "not start" so I can try the timing light. I'll have to wait til tomorrow morning before work I guess...lol stupid car man.

I'll read through that post on the fuel pressure gauge and just make one either way..I like having new tools.

I'll try the starter fluid first though tomorrow morning if the timing light is flashing while it's cranking.

Thank you again so much for the help,

Donnie

 

Okay...I might be getting somewhere.

I just went out and started it up and it stumbled again, stumbled hard. Took it a good 5 seconds to actually get up to idle speed kind of like it was dieseling getting going...

Leads me to thinking more fuel problem for sure. Now it's not the relay right? Because it wouldn't even turn the pump on if it was...??

Regulator, filter or pump itself...?

Where is the pump on these things? In the tank or engine compartment?

Thanks and I'll bet tomorrow morning that the timing light flashes and the starter fluid gets it going..this is the second time that it's stumbled and it was way harder this time. I did drive the car for about a mile right after it fired up and got it up to operating temp. It seemed to run pretty good but maybe just a little bit rougher.

 

Update...

I was able to get someone to finally help me out this morning and crank the car while it would not start and get my timing light on it...

It DID NOT flash when the car was turning over...

Does this point towards coil or coil ignition module or both?

Could it have caused that stumble that I was talking about??

Also, the check engine light DOES come on for 2 seconds when I turn the key on and then turns right off.

Thank you for any advice,

Donnie

 

You just showed that it's lack of spark, but that can be caused by either a bad coil or a bad ignitor. There's something in the DIY section about testing to figure out which. Still, it has to be screwing up while you do THAT test. Intermittent problems are difficult that way.