89 honda accord starting problems
 

Hello out there!! Have a great running 89 Honda...one issue kept us from completing the sale of this car. One owner car with regular maintenance. After the car runs for a while...it will sputter...or it will quit...and then not start for quite some time....After selling the car...the buyer drove off and when almost home it died and he called with same problem....Of course he no longer wanted the vehicle...and we left the car sit overnight...went in the morning to have the vehicle start back up and run great...back to square one...I believe it is in the fuel pump relay or the fuel pump itself...where is the relay and how can I replace it....I looked and can't seem to find it. thanks much

I got your PM, but it is better to use the forum so more people can help.

Before you try to start the car, turn the key to the II position, but do not try to start the car. Listen for the fuel pump to turn on for about two seconds. The buzzing sound turns on when the check engine light does the bulb check. If that sound is missing when the car is not starting, then you either have a problem with the main fuel relay, the fuel pump, or possibly the wiring.

You may want to test for power at the electrical connector in the trunk. We can provide more details if you like.

Copy and paste the link below for a site showing the main relay location. The 86-89 location is shown towards the bottom of the page.

Honda Accord Main Relay Location

thanks
 

the sound at the 11 position is no longer present...it was this morning and it is now not there...just a clicking noise....is this a relay problem? How do I check for power at the fuel pump?

right page
 

where is the forum page? is this it....this is a great site...just want to make sure I am posting on the right page...thanks for the link...this helps although changing the main relay looks pretty tedious and difficult to get at....concerned about having something short out....will look into getting a main relay....another site also mentioned something about the ignition control module (ICM) being bad...is this also possible?

What trim level is this, or another way...is it Fuel Injected or Carb'd?

Either way the fuel pump on these is stupid easy to get to. In the truck, pull the carpet back, fold the rear seat down will help get the carpet out of the way. There is a "panel" almost under the left/drivers rear speaker. Pry it up - just kind of glued down with black gum. From there you will see the pump.....check for voltage at the two pin connector.

You are in the right place.

EDIT: Just to be sure...the "stupid easy" was towards the car not any person....be glad the newer ones, you have all kinds of issues getting to the pump....one thing I wish Honda would bring back :)

There should be an electrical connector in the trunk of the car that has three wires. It should be near the back seat. One of the wires should be yellow. Check that you are getting 12V to that wire for about 2 seconds when you turn the key to the II position.

check for power
 

What do I use to check for power to the fuel pump....a voltmeter that I get at autozone? I am kind of mechanically inclined...I have already lifted the seat and the fuel pump lid and can see the wire connector on the fuel pump...what do I attach to this yellow wire to check for power?:)

Yes, use a voltmeter you can get from autozone, walmart, radioshak, harborfreight, anyplace like that.

Set to measure DC-VOLTS.
Red probe goes to that yellow wire on the car side of the connector.
Black probe goes to a good solid piece of metal structure on the car.
You want the meter to say about 12 volts, for 2 seconds after you turn the key ON.

new problem....
 

Have the humming noise from fuel pump...car fired up....but did not start.
I took spark plugs out to check for gas or a fouled plug...all looked good. They are pretty new NGK plugs...no foulness...the #4 plug is not seeding right and will not go in all the way (about 5 turns and it is tight)....now what. Yuk!!! Can I get a self tapper at Auto Zone.

Check the threads on the spark plug #4 to see if they are messed up. You might want to try some antiseize or a very light coating of oil on the plug threads. You do not want to cross thread the spark plug.

To avoid confusion, lets get some terminology straight. When you turn the key to the start position, the starter turns the engine. When the car fires up, is when you release the key, because the engine is running. It sounds like the starter is turning the engine, but the engine is not firing up, is that right?

If you hear the humming noise from the fuel pump, and the car did not fire up, then your main relay is likely working. To check for voltage, just touch the red lead on the volt meter to the yellow pin and the black volt meter lead to ground. For ground, find a bare metal bolt. There should be a ground bolt near that cover in your trunk that you can use. You may want to unbolt that ground and clean the bolt and eyelet with a wire brush.

You may want to pick up a can of starting fluid at the parts store. You will have to remove the big hose to the throttle body. Have and assistant try to start the car with the gas pedal pushed down. Spray the starting fluid in there. See if the engine will run (it could be poorly) while you spray starting fluid into the intake.

Do you have access to a timing light?

You may need an assistant

89 accord spark plug issue
 

This is correct...starter is turning engine....it wants to start but quits right away. This issue has been with the car for quite some time...hot or cold weather...great running car...will suddenly die and then not start back up until car sits for quite some time. We have used starter fluid in the carb before with success sometimes...other times nothing...gut feeling is a faulty fuel pump! Now on to the spark plug issue....threads on spark plug are good (no cross threading it looks like). Have tried the other spark plugs as well...when plug gets tight after 6 turns I back it out. Went to Auto Zone and picked up a thread cleaner and with some vaseline on threads will try to clean the threads on the head. do not have access to a timing light. If I get the vehicle running I will bring it to the mechanic for diagnosis. Just concerned about getting that spark plug back in correctly...do not want to get into buying the thread repair kit with the tap and all that business...yuk!

So you do have a carb on your accord.

I have never owned a car with a carb before. Search for posts by poorman212 and carb, because he owns several of the 3rd gen accords and is familiar with them.

He will probably post on here when he reads this thread.

...PA, been reading. Asked for trim level already...DX and LX = Carb...LXi = FI

OP- #1 and #4 spark plugs on these "lean" out (#1 closest to the belts, #4 closest to the trans). Menaing that when the plug(s) are started in by hand the "tip" needs to point more towards the fender than the front bumper....I'm going to guess it is one of these two that you are having an issue with.

This is sounding more like a spark issue. Honda used two dist on these. Is there a "silver" rectangle "thing" on the outside of the dist...trying to find out if the dist is TEC or Hitch...to help with testing.

rough running 89 accord
 

looking for some input....had a spark plug come out easy...but when I went to put it back in...it would not seed correctly. Went to Auto Zone and got a thread chaser to clean threads...this went in easy and I had to use vaseline to pick up the thread shavings...seemed like the thread chaser did the job after about 5 or 6 passes in and out of the hole. Put the spark plug back in....threaded fine...went all the way down and fit tight back into socket. Started the car and it is now running rougher than it did before..yuk! what happened? This vehicle has a carb and 4 cylinders..could this spark plug be not firing correctly? At a loss!
:rolleyes:

I would probably just replace the spark plugs with new ones. The NGK plugs recommended for the car should be listed in the owners manual and should run about $2 for each plug.

Let us know if the humming noise from the fuel pump is present or missing when you can not start the engine.

Like I said before, I always owned fuel injected cars. I think that there is a sight glass to see if fuel is running into the carb. Search the forums for carburetor or carb to see threads on these vehicles.

To me, the original issue is sounding like an ignition problem.

To speak to the new issue. Be sure the wires are seated all the way. Pull the cap and inspect it and the rotor.....while there, look at the dist cap, is it round or does it have a flat edge to it...again need to find out which dist is in the car - they came with two different ones.

On the carb models (DX and LX) it is RARE for the fuel pump relay to fail (different than the "main relay" on FI models)....but for now lets get the miss figured out, then back to the original issue.

thanks poorman and pa!
 

will get new plugs and see what this does! One of the distributors wires does seem to be seated all the way. I think (I am not at the home where the car is now) the distributor cap is round...no flat edge...will post on this tomorrow. I agree...origingal issue seems to be some sort of ignition problem....but what kind..why would the car stall after driving for a while and then not start back up again.....car has to sit at least a half a day! Need to get the new issue taken care of first (with minimum expense) hopfefully! Derek

Just my opinion, testing needed. The ICM or coil is going out (lean towards the coil), once hot there is no more "signal" or "spark" coming to/from it....If you were close by, I have a spare coil in the garage,,,,somewhere????

Round cap with no flat side is a Hitachi dist.....you'll need to know this if you get a new cap/rotor or testing of the ICM and that.

EDIT: "thanks poorman and pa! " Sorry, my/our pleasure...pretty sure I can speak for PA on this one :)

Please let everyone know what you find. For us and the next person it helps to know what solved the issue and what was done to get there. Heck, knocks on wood, I could face the same thing with one of mine.....or did I already and that is why I have a spare coil :D

will do...
 

Will get back to the car tomorrow...how do I edit a post? Do you have a diagram as to where the Ignition control module is and the coil. If you have a spare....can you send it to me? This site is great and you are very helpful!! D

At the bottom of the post there should be an "edit" button.

For the ICM and coil testing....hope you go that volt meter?

At the top of this section there is a "sticky" - Common DIY Threads. In that there is a link to a manual you can download.

You might have to do these tests when the issue is present....meaning cold everything might test fine......once it runs for "some period" of time it dies again, do the tests again once that happens.

Sorry, I still have three of these in the driveway. What I was saying is if you were close enough (short driving distance) I would let you "borrow" it to see if the issue goes away...if so then we could talk price or you could buy a new one as this one is used (~150K miles on it, or so). Not sure if you have any junk yards close by, they might be a good place since you are trying to sell this.

spark plug issue....!
 

ok..poorman or Pa...have unfortunate news...spark plug thread is not holding in the #4 spark plug (the one closest to the distributor..or when looking at the engine from front of car, the far left plug) I think the thread chaser ruined the threads....what now?! I know I can go with what they call a heal-a-coil to rethread the hole...is this true? Saw the kits at the parts store, but not sure how to use it. Was advised that is best to do this with the head cover off? Can I get some kind of direction with this unfortunate new circumstance.....:mad:

That is not good news.

The helicoil will work, but you risk getting metal into the cylinder. You could remove the cylinder head. That will be much more work and cost more money. This may not fix the original problem with your accord.

Here are two questions that you need to answer:

What do you want to do with this car? How much do you want to spend to fix this?

spark plug issue....!
 

Pa...my wife wants to sell this car! We did have it sold as I stated before but the vehicle stalled for the new owner before he even got it home and then wouldn't start...needless to say we returned their money and got the car back to the house...this is when I checked the plugs later that night and then could not get the one back in very well...I am disappointed. Is the helicoil a hard process...we just want to get it back running again. If I am not a mechanic...can I take the cylinder head of myself....I am pretty handy just unsure of the process? Do not want to spend a lot of money on this vehicle. I am getting so good info that the original problem may be the distributor....desperate to resolve:confused:

I am not so familiar with the 89 accord. I owned a 95 accord. That car had a long tube and the spark plug sat on the bottom. I had to use long extensions with my socket to remove a spark plug.

How is the setup on your accord?

Did you use a tap to remake the threads in the cylinder head?

I think I've seen other inserts that might work better than HeliCoil for this job, but not sure what they are.

Helicoil is wound out of wire, and has a piece going across the opening, to engage the tool. You have to break that piece off, and THAT leads to the risk of it falling into the cylinder.

The inserts you want are made solid, probably made specifically for sparkplug holes.

edit...
Here's one.
http://www.fulltorque.com/sparkplug.htm
(disclaimer: I've never done this or any type of repair on a sparkplug thread)
Spark plugs have to handle high temperatures and heat transfer across the threads. That's why there's specific ones for aluminum heads.

PS... HeliCoils aren't real difficult to install, if you get the full kit with installation tools. But they're for normal bolts, not for sparkplugs.

spark plug insert info...
 

Looks like there is a light at the end of the tunnel...have to know if cylinder head is aluminum or cast iron? Seems to me to be aluminum. I used a thread chaser to "clean out" the threads and put to much force on the chaser..as metal came out with the chaser. I thought this is what the grooves in the chaser are for. Spark plug is not tightening down well enough. Will do some calling around for more info. The spark plugs are easy to get to..(small extension required). Is removing the cylinder head difficult? Helicoil is not the way to go? Hopefully poorman will chime in as he has had these older vehicles. Looking for a way to not get into spending too much on this vehicle. Thanks!

Removing the head is a semi-difficult job, so maybe let us know what's the biggest repair job you've ever done. (Hard to judge someone's abilities over the web.)

Pretty sure the head is aluminum. I'm really only sure about that for the newer F-series engines.

I'm torn on how to answer this....and will say, knocks on wood, that I have not ever had to do this.

First, the true spark plug kits do not have the "tab"/"tang" that has to be broken off/removed. They do have a expander (if that make sense) that you have to use to lock the insert in......adding a good high heat thread locker to the insert is nice for the "next guy".

Does the head need to come off....ture answer is yes...however there are some kits that say you don't.

spark plug issue....!
 

Answer to Jim's question...I am not an auto mechanic and have only done simple repairs..my experience is very minimal and will most likely not attempt to remove the cylinder head...especially after making a mess out of the simple job of removing and replacing a spark plug!! I would have no idea of what to do first for such a job. I believe with enough research and phone calls I can go with the insert route. I am sure some mechanic has run into this problem before. Is the cylinder head on the 89 honda accord lx aluminum or hard steel? Also....why would a thread chaser be suggested if it does this kind of damage to your spark plug hole? Any guidance out there on insert kits?

Chasing threads is a bit of a trick, you have to feel the cutting tool as it properly enters the threads. If it goes in cross-threaded, you have to be able to recognize that before you do any actual cutting of the threads. I would have been in the same trouble if a sparkplug hole (especially recessed & angled) was the first time I'd ever used a thread tap.

It's entirely possible that your threads were already too far gone before you even got that thread-chaser tool.

Even to use an insert, you have to re-cut that threaded hole to a larger diameter, and that can be tricky too. Alignment of how you hold the tool is very important. The sparkplug hole sitting at an odd angle doesn't make that very easy.

I'd also get a shop-vac and attach a small-ish hose so you can stick the hose around there to suck out the metal shavings that you'll make. And stick the vacuum hose down into the cylinder after you're done to get anything that fell in.

Jim - Is a thread chaser tool the same thing as a tap?

It looks like a tap; it's sort of a lightweight tap. It's not generally good enough to cut new threads into a smooth hole, like you were first making something.

But like a tap, you have to line it up properly. In a way it can be worse than a tap, becuase if the leading thread is mangled, it wants to follow the damaged thread instead of the proper thread.

heilicoil or insert
 

After being insulted by an auto mechanic about "messing up" the spark plug hole I am uncertain as to what to do from here...a helicoil kit looks like the way to go with a good permaflex threadlocker for the helicoil. Nervous about recutting the hole and getting shavings or metal into cylinder head...most sites and videos did not have to remove cylinder head. The mechanic said he could fix it...but was rude about estimate, amount of time and also said..."if you are not sure what you are doing...don't do anything and use a professional"....I do not see the difficulty in this repair...seems common in Fords...pa, poorman, and Jim Blake..you have all been very helpful...but I may be heading to a mechanic. Derek

insert info....
 

The different types of insert kits out there is amazing...the full torque website was very expensive for the kit...almost $500.00...no way! Will check out Auto parts store...will make sure the insert is solid...not the helicoil type to get a good seal for the compression factor. What do I attach to a shop vac to put into the cylinder head....a straw?...ha!

I was thinking some kind of rubber hose a little bigger than a straw, but longer.

First, shops should not be rude. I can and will do play both sides of this but at the end of the day "Customer Service" is #1, if you feel they were wrong, don't ever spend money there again..find a new place....ok enough of that.

If you did the "chaser", I'm guessing you could do the insert. As Jim said, hose on the end of a vac will work....add what I sent in the PM.....I'd guess 1/4 fuel line will fit in there, a bit of tape to "fit" it to the vac and you should be good to go.

89 accord loss compression
 

Hello out there...new developments on the 89 Honda Accord. Looks like there is lost compression in the number 4 spark plug. Hired a mechanic to come and put in a "time-sert" for the stripped spark plug.....after successful install...the car started but ran rough....and he said it seems like there is loss of compression....He asked if it ran this way before the spark plug issue and I said no....this happened after I used the thread chaser on the cylinder hole...he asked how far I put in the thread chaser and I said not real far....he went on to explain if the valve could have possible been bent or chipped during this if the valve was (up or down) can't remember which. When inserting the thread chaser is it possible for the thread chaser to bend or chip the valve in the cylinder hole? Next step is to have a compression test on vehicle....not real happy with this...paid him $90 for not good results...any suggestions. He explained if valve is damage or chipped the repair will be quite expensive. Yes or no?

If there is valve damage the head will have to come off and be repaired.

I'd double check the wires, they have been on and off quite a bit recently. Also be sure to check the order of them.

will check wires....but that is what I paid him for...if not the wires is a compression test the next step...willing to go this route. Is it possible to damage the valve with a thread chaser or could a metal shaving damage a valve? What is the going rate for removing a head to repair the valve? A cross-threaded spark plug has turned into a mess!

Yes, compression would be next.

Could have? I thought most of them only had some amount of threads, in order to try to prevent just that. Compare the length of the thread chaser to that of one of the plugs...if you can follow what I'm trying to say.