93 Accord rough idle and fuel smell
#1
93 Accord rough idle and fuel smell
Ok I tried a search but have yet to find the solution to my problem. I have a 93 10th Anniversery Accord with @ 130K on it that runs pretty well. Since I bought it with 90K it has had a rough idle. So far in an attempt to fix the problem with the help of this forum I have tried cleaning the IACV, checked the timing, replaced the fuel filter, ignition coil, cap, rotor, wires & plugs. I have also replaced the timing and balance belt. In the last few months the virbration got worse and I found that the front and rearmotor mounts were bad so I replaced thembut that did not help much. I did not replace the drivers and passangersbut they looked ok. I have also disconnected the EGR and the PCV with no change in the idle quality. The idle is steady at 800 RPM's once it is warmed up.
About the same time the idle got worse I started getting a smell of fuel within the first 10-15 min after start up. I have not been able to locate any leaks at the fuel filter, injectors, fuel rail orthe hoses under the hood. I also checked thefuel pressure regulator to see if it was leaking gas in the diaphram, but I did not see any evidence of this. I have to admit that I'm stumped atthis point.
A few things that I plan on fixing that I don't think could be the problem are cleaning the EGR ports and replacing the upper and lower spark plug well seals as I have found some oil in the wells.
Could it be possible that I have a bad fuel injector? I have also heard that there is a second IACV under the manifold. I have looked but have not been able to find it does it exist? Eventhough the driver and passanger motor mounts looked good could they be bad? What should I look for? I'm open to any and all suggestions at this point, so let's hear them.I know Honda did not design it to run this way and I just want it to be normal.
Thanks guys and gals.
About the same time the idle got worse I started getting a smell of fuel within the first 10-15 min after start up. I have not been able to locate any leaks at the fuel filter, injectors, fuel rail orthe hoses under the hood. I also checked thefuel pressure regulator to see if it was leaking gas in the diaphram, but I did not see any evidence of this. I have to admit that I'm stumped atthis point.
A few things that I plan on fixing that I don't think could be the problem are cleaning the EGR ports and replacing the upper and lower spark plug well seals as I have found some oil in the wells.
Could it be possible that I have a bad fuel injector? I have also heard that there is a second IACV under the manifold. I have looked but have not been able to find it does it exist? Eventhough the driver and passanger motor mounts looked good could they be bad? What should I look for? I'm open to any and all suggestions at this point, so let's hear them.I know Honda did not design it to run this way and I just want it to be normal.
Thanks guys and gals.
#2
RE: 93 Accord rough idle and fuel smell
so let me get this right,, idles ok one warm evenly at 800 rpm ,,,,,,,,so rough idle is only when engine is cold ??
the fuel smell could be form a saturated charcoal canister I have seen a few of those
have you checked valve adjustment?
if engine is rougher after you replaced t-belt you might have the balancer shaft not lined up properly ,,
do the plugs look like engine is running too rich ?? I have also seen a few TW sensors that cause that , chk engine lite on ?? any codes ??
the fuel smell could be form a saturated charcoal canister I have seen a few of those
have you checked valve adjustment?
if engine is rougher after you replaced t-belt you might have the balancer shaft not lined up properly ,,
do the plugs look like engine is running too rich ?? I have also seen a few TW sensors that cause that , chk engine lite on ?? any codes ??
#3
RE: 93 Accord rough idle and fuel smell
Thanks for the reply deserthonda
To answer your question the idle is rough all the time, but is noticably rougher once it is warmed up and the RPM's have dropped to 800. The t-belt was replaced and valves adjusted right after I bought the car and I don't remember any change in the idle quality.
The only time the check engine light has come on since I bought the car was when I removed the vac line from the EGR valve. That said I have not checked for codes. Doesn't the light have to come on to store a code?
I will check the charcoal canister to see if it is saturated. Don't think the engine is running rich as I just checked the plugs and the gaps are all within spec and they all read to to be a good mixture. Mygas mileage has also been pretty consistant as well. Oh and I planned on checking the valves when I replace the o-rings for the spark plug wells since I was going to be in the area.
Oh I should add that I just ran a bottle of Techtron through the fuel system and I also plan on running a can of Seafoam through the engine soon. I doubt it is a carbon build up problem, but it can't hurt.
Ok help me out here. What is the TW sensor?
To answer your question the idle is rough all the time, but is noticably rougher once it is warmed up and the RPM's have dropped to 800. The t-belt was replaced and valves adjusted right after I bought the car and I don't remember any change in the idle quality.
The only time the check engine light has come on since I bought the car was when I removed the vac line from the EGR valve. That said I have not checked for codes. Doesn't the light have to come on to store a code?
I will check the charcoal canister to see if it is saturated. Don't think the engine is running rich as I just checked the plugs and the gaps are all within spec and they all read to to be a good mixture. Mygas mileage has also been pretty consistant as well. Oh and I planned on checking the valves when I replace the o-rings for the spark plug wells since I was going to be in the area.
Oh I should add that I just ran a bottle of Techtron through the fuel system and I also plan on running a can of Seafoam through the engine soon. I doubt it is a carbon build up problem, but it can't hurt.
Ok help me out here. What is the TW sensor?
#4
RE: 93 Accord rough idle and fuel smell
TW sensor is the coolant temp sensor, it sends signal to the ECU on the condition of coolant , in a cold start TW tell ECU that engine is cold , the ecu will richen the mixture for better start up and when coolant is hot TW ends ECU signal that engine is hot, ECU it will leanthe mixture for normal running condition,,,,But if no codes and the plugs look ok TW might not be the problem
I want to to try something,, on the EGR valve, disconnect the hose and see if there is any vacc at the hose engine running of course ,,( you will get a chk engine lite but you can easily clear the code by removing the bak up fuse 7.5 amps in the underhood fuse box ) if there is vacc at idle the egr vlve is being opened thus engine running rough,, If no vacc at idle , apply vacc to the EGR valve and if engine dies egr valve is ok and ports are not plugged ,, if engine continues to idle , could be plugged egr ports or bad egr valve ....it thats the case i would clean the ports first a lot cheaper,,,
there is an HOW TO on our DIY section ...
for a code to be stored the ecu lite has to come on first , but i would chk for codes anyways ( eliminating process ) and chk those valves tight valves cause a rough idle ,, have you checked compression ?? Also it the miss across the board or to a particular cylinder,, while engine running remove the plug wires 1 at a time , see if there is any difference in idle dropping,, the cylinder with the least or no idle drop could not be firing properly,, if they are all ok, do the same with injector connectors ......disconnect them 1 at a time and see if you note any difference.. if so,, than you need to test the injector wiring you need a NOID lilte to see that wiring up to injector is ok ,, if ok,, than you might have a bad injector
let us know
I want to to try something,, on the EGR valve, disconnect the hose and see if there is any vacc at the hose engine running of course ,,( you will get a chk engine lite but you can easily clear the code by removing the bak up fuse 7.5 amps in the underhood fuse box ) if there is vacc at idle the egr vlve is being opened thus engine running rough,, If no vacc at idle , apply vacc to the EGR valve and if engine dies egr valve is ok and ports are not plugged ,, if engine continues to idle , could be plugged egr ports or bad egr valve ....it thats the case i would clean the ports first a lot cheaper,,,
there is an HOW TO on our DIY section ...
for a code to be stored the ecu lite has to come on first , but i would chk for codes anyways ( eliminating process ) and chk those valves tight valves cause a rough idle ,, have you checked compression ?? Also it the miss across the board or to a particular cylinder,, while engine running remove the plug wires 1 at a time , see if there is any difference in idle dropping,, the cylinder with the least or no idle drop could not be firing properly,, if they are all ok, do the same with injector connectors ......disconnect them 1 at a time and see if you note any difference.. if so,, than you need to test the injector wiring you need a NOID lilte to see that wiring up to injector is ok ,, if ok,, than you might have a bad injector
let us know
#6
RE: 93 Accord rough idle and fuel smell
One thing thats easy, is to remove the air induction tubing thats connected to the throttle body (there's a little screw and a clamp) and clean out the butterfly valve and throttle body with carb cleaner.You'll be able to tell right away by looking in there if it has a lot of carbon build up. (Also check air cleaner)
#7
RE: 93 Accord rough idle and fuel smell
First thingI do for rough idleis shown in this link;
http://members.troublecodes.net/hond...ttlebdycln.jpg
as far as the gas smell, look around the base of the injectors for stains that might indicate gas seeping. You probably won't see raw gas because it evaporates when it touches the warm manifold, but it usually leaves a brownish stain.
http://members.troublecodes.net/hond...ttlebdycln.jpg
as far as the gas smell, look around the base of the injectors for stains that might indicate gas seeping. You probably won't see raw gas because it evaporates when it touches the warm manifold, but it usually leaves a brownish stain.
#9
RE: 93 Accord rough idle and fuel smell
Thanks for the replies everyone. I have been making a list of everyone's suggetions and I am going to work on them one by one. Hopefully one of these will do the trick. I'll be sure to post back my findings.
#10
RE: 93 Accord rough idle and fuel smell
Ok I had some time last weekend to work on some of these issues. I started by checking and cleaning the TB, IACV, EGR valve, FIT valve, and air boost valve. Everything looked pretty clean, but since I had it appart I gave everything the once over. The IACV cleaned up good as new and when I hooked it up to 12 volts I got the "click" and I could see the piston retract.
As for the EGR valve there was very little carbon build up and I had no difficulty removing it. I tested the diaphram and it would hold a vacuum so I knew it was not damaged. I reinstalled it and checked to see if there was vacuum present at idle and there wasn't. With the car at idle I applied vacuum to the EGR and the car would run rough, but did not stall. I guess the EGR ports are clogged and I will need ot clean them.
I also cleaned and adjusted the FIT valve without any issues. Now the only problem I found was with the air boost valve. I removedand cleaned it and everything looked good. Once I had it back togehter I applied vacuum to it and it would not hold. I tried this a few times, but everytime it would leak down pretty quick. Now could this be my problem? How does this work? Does it supply extra air when the motor is in high vacuum, or when it in low vacuum? Can this be purchased from an auto parts store, or is it dealer only?
I also performed a compression test. The results were pretty good and were as follows: 1-184, 2-179, 3-179, 4-171. I am going to run a can of seafoam through it next to see it will help make #1&4 read more normal. I have seen this happen in the past with carbon build up on the pistons for high compression and on the valve seats of low compression. I haven't done a leak down test yet, but I may do that if all else fails.
Ok so at this point all the cleaning did little nothing to help the idle smoothness so I moved on. Next was to try removing plug wires, but tha only made things worse. I also checked the injectors and got a steady ticking from each one.
I am going to try the Seafoam and replace the air boost valve and see what happens. If that does not work, then I believe that I could have a partially clogged injector or an ignition wire that is starting to go bad. I am also going to check the valves, but I don't belive they could be causing the problem as they are not very noisy.
So what do you guys think?
As for the EGR valve there was very little carbon build up and I had no difficulty removing it. I tested the diaphram and it would hold a vacuum so I knew it was not damaged. I reinstalled it and checked to see if there was vacuum present at idle and there wasn't. With the car at idle I applied vacuum to the EGR and the car would run rough, but did not stall. I guess the EGR ports are clogged and I will need ot clean them.
I also cleaned and adjusted the FIT valve without any issues. Now the only problem I found was with the air boost valve. I removedand cleaned it and everything looked good. Once I had it back togehter I applied vacuum to it and it would not hold. I tried this a few times, but everytime it would leak down pretty quick. Now could this be my problem? How does this work? Does it supply extra air when the motor is in high vacuum, or when it in low vacuum? Can this be purchased from an auto parts store, or is it dealer only?
I also performed a compression test. The results were pretty good and were as follows: 1-184, 2-179, 3-179, 4-171. I am going to run a can of seafoam through it next to see it will help make #1&4 read more normal. I have seen this happen in the past with carbon build up on the pistons for high compression and on the valve seats of low compression. I haven't done a leak down test yet, but I may do that if all else fails.
Ok so at this point all the cleaning did little nothing to help the idle smoothness so I moved on. Next was to try removing plug wires, but tha only made things worse. I also checked the injectors and got a steady ticking from each one.
I am going to try the Seafoam and replace the air boost valve and see what happens. If that does not work, then I believe that I could have a partially clogged injector or an ignition wire that is starting to go bad. I am also going to check the valves, but I don't belive they could be causing the problem as they are not very noisy.
So what do you guys think?