Well... again that's the question. Should I just replace them when already that far into the engine, is the extra work that hard? It's the feeling of maybe it will work, maybe it wont for another 60-70k that I dont like since that's about what I was hoping/expecting to get out of the car. (I have doubts the auto trans will still work past 300k, how many are likely to do that even if it seems fine now??). As long as the work isn't a high risk thing i'm likely to screw up, i'm tempted to try put them in. If it's alot of extra work, or there's a danger of breaking things or doing it wrong or screwing up the job, i'm tempted not to so i'm torn.

I just keep having back problems in addition to every other postponement that's dragging this out FOREVER... :-P Wont start this weekend either at this rate. Might sit until another spring if everything continues this way.

My oil pan definately leaks too, but i'm willing to just let it leak because it's an annoyance to top off oil but not as much of an engine killer - wouldn't leaking seals both damage the timing belt or probably drop oil so fast the driver may not even notice before the engine is dead? If the oil drops slowly I can top it off, but also wondering if it's likely to sour the timing belt in short order.

Of course i'm aware there are other things that can 'suddenly' fail over 200k causing the same outcome, including the oil pump itself which i'd rather not touch, so maybe i'll just do the belt and ignore the seals if they're intact. I'll try to post pictures when I have the timing cover off for opinions on the matter - my eyes are not as practiced as most other peoples and whats obvious to you might not be to me.

 

A seal that's worn can seep oil very slowly, probably less oil than your pan gasket. If the seal should pop out of place, that will dump a lot of oil out in a very short time - and that's what the retainers are all about.

Seals are pretty cheap compared to the size of the job just getting to them. You can buy them then decide whether to install them. If you install them, you have to be careful getting the pulleys off the shafts. But mostly the risk of scratching the surface they seal against when you dig the old seal out of it's place.

 

I'm one of those people who don't fix it unless it's broken types. However Timing belts on a Honda are the 1 thing I'll do before the belt breaks. This is because the engine is an interference engine. Meaning IF the belt breaks, you're looking at bending valves, and possibly breaking pistons. Can you say expensive?? Seals and other stuff are minor compared to that. It really depends on how bad the leak is before you decide to replace the seals. How much oil were you feeding it before you "parked" it?

The AT in the 6th gen Honda (98-02) are known to go, but nobody knows when (as compared to the GM 4L60E that goes at 140K BTDT had it rebuilt). The highest mileage 6th gen trans that I know of was a 4 cylinder version, that went 414K miles with regular 3X3 quart oil changes using DW1 every 30K. It was sold still working like new according to it's former owner. Everyone else has gone anywhere from 130K to 300K miles.
The longest I've heard of a 6th gen V6 AT going is 364Kkms (don't know what that converts to). He drives it every day 80kms each way to work, and is working 6 days a week. When it let go, it started slipping, then got worse, until he finally couldn't stand it anymore and replaced it with a used one that he harvested out of a 300 dollar (CDN) parts car he bought, and is still using that car today (it's his daily beater). His major concern is RUST, as he feels that will take it off the road (gets inspected every year for road worthiness).

 

So would a retainer prevent a massive oil dump long enough to hopefully catch it (by which I mean flash an idiot light, that my girlfriend realizes is bad in time and pulls over to call me so I can tow it home to check it out) or is it a "yep you bought an engine" event if it happens? If the chances are GOOD that a warning light or/and buzzer would have an average driver pull over in time to avoid Total Catastrophe i'll try to avoid doing the seals.

For what it's worth rapidly cooling weather (the original predictions for 35-40 all week just dumped subfreezing nonstop) plus back problems shifted this into a slow all winter project. :-P When I get to it i'll fire up the kero heater and try to disassemble things down to getting a picture under the timing cover. Then decide what to do about the oil seals - if they look slow leaking, fast leaking, or what.


Oh i've got that, thats why the car has been parked all this time and will sit til this job is done. This has migrated from "wanting to fix" to "forced me to pay to have another car fixed and now subsisting on ramen" mode cuz the bill is already due for the other car. But this is more efficient so it WILL get fixed sooner or later. It's a waste not to/I already bought the belt and all, might as well try it.

I'll post seal pictures whenever this winter I finally get the timing cover off. maybe before the end of nov, we'll see.

Well i've got a 1994 fifth gen lacking any trans suicide parts like the later ones so i'm hoping it will still last. As they say, transmission fluid "pink with no stink". If I get another 60-70k out of the car i'll be pretty happy. I did the brakes and CV shaft already on it, and if the timing belt/water pump fix works well it will owe me nothing. But i'd still like to use it a bit longer, it's a cute little car. And the only one I have that the AC works on right now.

Also news to me that the GM 4L60's (L = longitudinal, north south, RWD or 4WD) were bad trannies? I was less sure about the 4T60's (transverse, FWD) but thought the north southers were solid for what they were, going 500,000 miles in taxi service and such generally.

 

If you're comfortable with the leak from your oil pan, then just put in the seal-retainer. You're already aware of checking the oil dipstick regularly. The way for a seal to suddenly dump a lot of oil, is for the entire seal to pop out of place. That's exactly what the retainer is going to stop. Instead of relying on the tight fit of the seal, it's a little bracket that positively holds it in.

You already know about the timing belt itself, it's capable of suddenly losing teeth or something to allow the camshaft to go out of time. That doesn't have any warning lights, until the moment it happens & the pistons hit the valves.

 

The retainer clip is to keep the seal in place, so the seal doesn't come out until the retainer is removed. That's it's job, to keep the seal in place.The front balance shaft is the only seal that doesn't have a gear close by to keep it from walking out of it's hole.
The 94 Accord AT's were solid, mostly due to less electronics in them. The added electronics of the 6th gen are what caused them to get a bad rep. The 5th gens (94-97) didn't have this problem.

I said the 4L60E (electronic) are the ones that'll go 140K before failure. The 4L60 is another name for the 700R4, which is based off the THM400 (uses some parts from them too). Check most of the GM sites, as that trans was used in S-10's, Blazers, Astro vans, and even in the light duty full size trucks and SUVs. My own went at about 140,500 miles, which was right on target for the norm. My wife's Safari van went at 139K, and has an early 4L60E in it. After about 2000, most of the heavier duty GM vehicles got the 4L80E trans, which is stronger, and doesn't suffer from the same issues as the 4L60E did. However, the key to getting mileage out of them is regular fluid and filter changes.

And Jim is correct, when a timing belt goes, it goes quickly and without warning.