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95 Coupe Bogs, Excessive Fuel Consumption

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  #11  
Old 10-25-2012, 08:35 AM
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We know for a fact that the mechanical timing part of the car (timing belt) is perfectly in time. However, the timing cover was never put back on, you could see how this could pose a problem now. The reasoning behind why I chose to go on the camshaft was because the little "up" badge was perfectly visible, and I knew that with the camshaft being attached to the crankshaft, the idea of the both being the same was fine... I wish we could just put my timing cover back on, but it's all jacked up, and the plastic molding is kinda jacked up too...

No, it was the CEL. After we jumped the connecter, it was 8 short flashes, 4 long flashes, then maybe another long flash, or a kinda-long-but-not-short flash.

I'll take a video of the flashing CEL light and upload it after school. That should help clear up some of the confusion.
 

Last edited by iStagl; 10-25-2012 at 08:42 AM.
  #12  
Old 10-25-2012, 01:56 PM
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So even the lower timing cover is removed? There's a timing mark on the oilpump casting, and a mark on the timing sprocket, that show TDC. They're located at about 2-oclock if you're looking at the crankshaft through the wheel well. But they might not be visible unless you remove the crankshaft pulley. Did you use those marks to determine that it's "perfectly in time"? If not, how did you determine that?

Anyway, yes you can use your timing light on the camshaft sprocket to check the spark timing.
1) Set the advance dial on your light to 15-degrees advanced.
2) Engine warmed up, base idle set properly, SCS jumpered.
3) Don't worry about the "UP" arrow; it's only to the nearest spoke of the sprocket.
4) Shine the timing light at the little dimple marks out at the sprocket teeth.
5) Use the distributor adjustment to line them up with the top edge of the back timing cover.
 
  #13  
Old 10-25-2012, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by JimBlake
So even the lower timing cover is removed? There's a timing mark on the oilpump casting, and a mark on the timing sprocket, that show TDC. They're located at about 2-oclock if you're looking at the crankshaft through the wheel well. But they might not be visible unless you remove the crankshaft pulley. Did you use those marks to determine that it's "perfectly in time"? If not, how did you determine that?

Anyway, yes you can use your timing light on the camshaft sprocket to check the spark timing.
1) Set the advance dial on your light to 15-degrees advanced.
2) Engine warmed up, base idle set properly, SCS jumpered.
3) Don't worry about the "UP" arrow; it's only to the nearest spoke of the sprocket.
4) Shine the timing light at the little dimple marks out at the sprocket teeth.
5) Use the distributor adjustment to line them up with the top edge of the back timing cover.
I did not time the car myself, the mechanic did, so as far as I know it's perfectly in time, according to him. I trust his word, but I'll double check to be sure.

What do you mean by SCS jumpered?

"Shine the timing light at the little dimple marks out at the sprocket teeth" you mean the dimples on the harmonic balancer? Or is there also dimples on the cam pulley?

"Use the distributor adjustment to line them up with the top edge of the back of the timing cover" What do you mean by this? Inside the timing cover there's marks I use? I'm guessing you mean the lower timing cover?
 
  #14  
Old 10-25-2012, 11:15 PM
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From what I read, you have a code 8 and a code 41.

This video should help you out:

When the engine computer detects a problem with the signal it gets from a sensor, the engine computer sets a code. The code could be from the sensor, the wiring, or the computer.

A code 8 is for the top dead center sensor/circuit. That is inside of the distributor, so it is plugged in.

A code 41 is for the heater circuit in the O2 sensor.

As for the timing, the timing belt sets the timing between the cam shaft and the crankshaft. Rotating the distributor it the fine tuning. This video shows how you do this:
 
  #15  
Old 10-25-2012, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by PAhonda
From what I read, you have a code 8 and a code 41.

This video should help you out: How To Pull Honda Codes Without a Scanner -EricTheCarGuy - YouTube

When the engine computer detects a problem with the signal it gets from a sensor, the engine computer sets a code. The code could be from the sensor, the wiring, or the computer.

A code 8 is for the top dead center sensor/circuit. That is inside of the distributor, so it is plugged in.

A code 41 is for the heater circuit in the O2 sensor.

As for the timing, the timing belt sets the timing between the cam shaft and the crankshaft. Rotating the distributor it the fine tuning. This video shows how you do this: How to Set Ignition Timing, Acura Integra - EricTheCarGuy - YouTube
TWO codes? Awh ****, it just got real... I figured there would have been a pause in between the two different codes. I'll recheck the codes tomorrow, but I think you're right.

What's a heater circuit in the O2 sensor? Does that mean it's broken? Lol.

As for the TDC sensor... what do I do about that? That can't be good! Do you think that could be messing with my timing? I don't think it's good for the distributor to be bottomed out completely on the other side and still have bogging issues, I don't know what to do next...

I'm starting to despise this car more and more, it's becoming a money pit.
 
  #16  
Old 10-26-2012, 12:17 AM
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An O2 sensor has four wires. 2 wires are the signal wires. The other two wires heat up the sensor, so it can read the oxygen levels in the exhaust faster. Your computer detected a problem with the heater part of the sensor. If you have a volt meter, you can do a resistance test on the two wires of the O2 sensor. It would be the orange/black and the yellow black wire. Should be 10-40 ohms.

The TDC sensor is inside the distributor, so you would have to replace the distributor housing. There is a resistance check on two wires leading to this sensor as well. Test the resistance between the orange/blue and white/blue on the distributor electrical connector. Resistance should be 350-700 ohms. Try that first. I would consider getting the distributor housing from a junkyard. You may want to inspect those two wires inside of the distributor.

My guess is that the TDC would cause your car to run poorly. The O2 sensor would make the car less fuel efficient.
 
  #17  
Old 10-26-2012, 07:46 AM
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About the timing...
If the lower timing cover is OK, then the easiest thing is to use the notches in the crankshaft pulley. Use them against the pointer molded into the lower cover.
Either 1) Set your light to ZERO advance & use the set of 3 notches
Or 2) Set your light to 15-degrees & use the single notch at TDC

When I wrote that I thought your lower timing cover was messed up or not installed. In that case, you can use the camshaft marks. But the "UP" arrow is only to get the gear right-side-up. The actual timing marks are little dimples out at the teeth of the camshaft sprocket. These line up horizontally, lined up with the top surface of the head. Or the top edge of the back cover, between the head & sprocket. That back cover is #4 in the picture.

Jumpering the SCS connector is how you read error codes. But it also prevents the ECU from making any adjustments to the spark timing while you're trying to set it.
 
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  #18  
Old 10-26-2012, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by JimBlake
About the timing...
If the lower timing cover is OK, then the easiest thing is to use the notches in the crankshaft pulley. Use them against the pointer molded into the lower cover.
Either 1) Set your light to ZERO advance & use the set of 3 notches
Or 2) Set your light to 15-degrees & use the single notch at TDC

When I wrote that I thought your lower timing cover was messed up or not installed. In that case, you can use the camshaft marks. But the "UP" arrow is only to get the gear right-side-up. The actual timing marks are little dimples out at the teeth of the camshaft sprocket. These line up horizontally, lined up with the top surface of the head. Or the top edge of the back cover, between the head & sprocket. That back cover is #4 in the picture.

Jumpering the SCS connector is how you read error codes. But it also prevents the ECU from making any adjustments to the spark timing while you're trying to set it.
No you were right, the lower timing cover is not installed, and it is also messed up. The harmonic balancer started to rub into the timing cover and I'm pretty sure it rubbed the timing marks completely off... That, and the indicator for the timing is also missing.

So does that mean I need to go get a new distributor housing?
 
  #19  
Old 10-26-2012, 02:39 PM
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Close to destroyed lower timing cover.
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Bottomed out distributor.
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And would this be the O2 sensor in question? (For code 41)

I took a video of the engine codes, I'll upload it to YouTube here in a few minutes, and I also took a video of driving with the Camera inside the car so you guys could get a taste of what it's like from a stop, and while driving and such.
 
  #20  
Old 10-26-2012, 09:52 PM
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Yes, that's the sensor for code 41. Unplug it & measure resistance between the 2 same-color (black?) wires. Should be 10 to 40 ohms. Normally its a bad sensor, but measure it in case the problem is in the car's wiring.

I don't know about needing a new distributor. I'm still not 100% confident that you're measuring the spark timing correctly. You mention the arrow on the cam sprocket, but that's often 20 degrees off. Look for the dimples in the cam sprocket and use your timing light to shine on those.

If you were to install that lower cover, the timing marks are still there. Very top & center of the photo, there's 2 posts. Kinda like an iron gunsight, the top one is a V & the bottom is a post. And the notches in the pulley are probably 1/16" deep. They won't wear off.

Another thought... one way for the pulley to rub like that is if the rubber part is coming loose. That's not a solid steel pulley; there's a layer of rubber for vibration damping. Sometimes that begins slipping. Make a mark with white paint or chalk or something, from the "hub" of the pulley right out to the rim. After driving awhile, check if it's moved.
 

Last edited by JimBlake; 10-26-2012 at 09:56 PM.


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