HELP 03 Acc - trans NoLoad dwnshifts, now slips? also wont hold cruise..
Thread Starter
|
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 66
From: Minnesota
HELP 03 Acc - trans NoLoad dwnshifts, now slips? also wont hold cruise..
Vehicle 2003 Honda Accord EX V6, 5 speed auto, 179k miles, trans rebuilt at a kennedy transmission at 110k
Above vehicle was basically running fine (certainly in terms of the trans) all the sudden it's not. Checked dipstick and it doesn't seem low on fluid or stinky bad fluid or anything - it was literally shifting flawlessly until today.
Driving about 80mph on highway and was going along fine and out of the blue the vehicle drops out of cruise, downshifts a gear (it wasnt just going out of converter lockup, the RPM went up to 3k rpm and such obviously) for like half a second and then resumes. I cant 100% swear I didn't bump the brake somehow so I continue on. Maybe 40 miles later, again suddenly downshifts (revs to 3k rpm), drops out of cruise. This happens maybe 2 or 3 more times after this too on a 240 mile trip, all highway miles. I start driving without the cruise to see if that's somehow aggravating it - and once when I drop the throttle to zero load it does the same downshift, rev to 3krpm, and then back to normal gear. This is all with no real hills or wind - no real load. So I drive slower at 70mph.
Finally get into town - seems okay at first, but then when just going at 40mph in town it seems to do the wierd downshift at again zero load and nearly no throttle, so it's not just highway speed. Car jerks. Then a mile later, suddenly it slips a shift - this time it revs up past the shift point before suddenly catching, again at extremely low throttle and only 35mph. Two miles later, it does it again and slips a shift.
So now i'm parked wondering what in the world is going on. There are no codes thrown. I can post a picture of the trans fluid later when my phone charges but it seemed quite normal, and around the two little dots on the bottom of the dipstick. (there was also a dot multiple inches up the stick - stupid Honda doesn't have any words saying normal level anywhere, so i'm assuming it's between the lower dots, otherwise yes it is low on fluid somehow)
I'm really REALLY hoping that this is somehow "a thing" and that it's somehow fixable without major trans work because I just bet the farm of school and work transportation on this car hoping I would finally have something reliable for awhile. :( I'm also 250 miles from home (for medical treatment) and if I can't even get this back by monday evening i'm missing college classes and work and worse so am very concerned on what to do...
Above vehicle was basically running fine (certainly in terms of the trans) all the sudden it's not. Checked dipstick and it doesn't seem low on fluid or stinky bad fluid or anything - it was literally shifting flawlessly until today.
Driving about 80mph on highway and was going along fine and out of the blue the vehicle drops out of cruise, downshifts a gear (it wasnt just going out of converter lockup, the RPM went up to 3k rpm and such obviously) for like half a second and then resumes. I cant 100% swear I didn't bump the brake somehow so I continue on. Maybe 40 miles later, again suddenly downshifts (revs to 3k rpm), drops out of cruise. This happens maybe 2 or 3 more times after this too on a 240 mile trip, all highway miles. I start driving without the cruise to see if that's somehow aggravating it - and once when I drop the throttle to zero load it does the same downshift, rev to 3krpm, and then back to normal gear. This is all with no real hills or wind - no real load. So I drive slower at 70mph.
Finally get into town - seems okay at first, but then when just going at 40mph in town it seems to do the wierd downshift at again zero load and nearly no throttle, so it's not just highway speed. Car jerks. Then a mile later, suddenly it slips a shift - this time it revs up past the shift point before suddenly catching, again at extremely low throttle and only 35mph. Two miles later, it does it again and slips a shift.
So now i'm parked wondering what in the world is going on. There are no codes thrown. I can post a picture of the trans fluid later when my phone charges but it seemed quite normal, and around the two little dots on the bottom of the dipstick. (there was also a dot multiple inches up the stick - stupid Honda doesn't have any words saying normal level anywhere, so i'm assuming it's between the lower dots, otherwise yes it is low on fluid somehow)
I'm really REALLY hoping that this is somehow "a thing" and that it's somehow fixable without major trans work because I just bet the farm of school and work transportation on this car hoping I would finally have something reliable for awhile. :( I'm also 250 miles from home (for medical treatment) and if I can't even get this back by monday evening i'm missing college classes and work and worse so am very concerned on what to do...
Last edited by fixinmyself; Oct 12, 2018 at 06:36 PM.
Thread Starter
|
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 66
From: Minnesota
Shouldnt an electronic code throw the check engine/whatever light as well? Or will it not show up without the OBD2? Can I self check the OBD2 at an Orielly's/what am I looking for under what menu for instance?
A friend suggested "Those accords are very sensitive to dirty trans fluid, even it not being changed at 60k and being 10k over could contribute to misshifts - if you got the trans fluid fully changed, it might extend the life of the transmission another 40-50k miles." What do others think of this advice?
The trans HASNT had fluid changed since 2009-2010 apparently, when the trans was rebuilt. He stopped going to the dealer. (nor has any other scheduled maintenance if any between 110k and 170k, though yes the timing belt was done right at 100k) So it's 10k after the scheduled fluid change for a new/rebuilt transmission.... can the transmissions REALLY be THAT sensitive?? Will just changing the fluid actually extend the life that much?
He was adamant "not a pressure flush, just a total fluid change" meaning beyond what I could easily do myself, needing a hoist and such so the tires can spin in gear. I was wondering how much should this cost, and is any mechanic shop suited to do it or is it more specialized to honda somehow whatever technique?
For what it's worth the car has gone 350 miles without a single missed or wierd shift - although the first 100 around high speed metro was granny driving, and the next 250 miles locked in overdrive at 60mph carefully so that not even a converter unlock would happen on hills in cruise. (assuming that each and every shift is the potential problem, so minimizing shifts is the smart thing to do - wondering if I should use D3 around town or something as well, and it seems there is no overdrive lockout on this trans, it's gear 3 or the steep 5th on the highway)
Would something like Trans-X even help to thicken fluid, or is it irrelevant? (since it wasnt slipping in gear, it was having unwanted downshifts, and seemed to screw up two upshifts minorly at very tiny throttle settings) My assumption is going to be crap or gunk in a hydraulic passage somewhere making some check ball a bit lazy to lock in or something somehow...
I need more advice - I like the car and don't want to see it die so fast. :-/
A friend suggested "Those accords are very sensitive to dirty trans fluid, even it not being changed at 60k and being 10k over could contribute to misshifts - if you got the trans fluid fully changed, it might extend the life of the transmission another 40-50k miles." What do others think of this advice?
The trans HASNT had fluid changed since 2009-2010 apparently, when the trans was rebuilt. He stopped going to the dealer. (nor has any other scheduled maintenance if any between 110k and 170k, though yes the timing belt was done right at 100k) So it's 10k after the scheduled fluid change for a new/rebuilt transmission.... can the transmissions REALLY be THAT sensitive?? Will just changing the fluid actually extend the life that much?
He was adamant "not a pressure flush, just a total fluid change" meaning beyond what I could easily do myself, needing a hoist and such so the tires can spin in gear. I was wondering how much should this cost, and is any mechanic shop suited to do it or is it more specialized to honda somehow whatever technique?
For what it's worth the car has gone 350 miles without a single missed or wierd shift - although the first 100 around high speed metro was granny driving, and the next 250 miles locked in overdrive at 60mph carefully so that not even a converter unlock would happen on hills in cruise. (assuming that each and every shift is the potential problem, so minimizing shifts is the smart thing to do - wondering if I should use D3 around town or something as well, and it seems there is no overdrive lockout on this trans, it's gear 3 or the steep 5th on the highway)
Would something like Trans-X even help to thicken fluid, or is it irrelevant? (since it wasnt slipping in gear, it was having unwanted downshifts, and seemed to screw up two upshifts minorly at very tiny throttle settings) My assumption is going to be crap or gunk in a hydraulic passage somewhere making some check ball a bit lazy to lock in or something somehow...
I need more advice - I like the car and don't want to see it die so fast. :-/
Super Moderator
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 18,398
From: Wisconsin
About the "total" ATF change...
When you drain/fill, that only gets about 1/3 of the total fluid. You can't drain the torque converter. The dealer can lift the car, then drain/fill and run it (wheels spinning) for a few minutes. Then drain/fill again & again. Nothing magic about that. But use Honda ATF without additives.
Unless the fluid on the transmission dipstick looks really bad, I'd drain/fill it and drive around a bit then drain/fill again. Each time, drain it into a clean pan so you can look for crud in the fluid you just drained out. That's how I would judge how many times to drain/fill. If it's only 70k from a rebuild, I'll GUESS it's not that bad.
When you drain/fill, that only gets about 1/3 of the total fluid. You can't drain the torque converter. The dealer can lift the car, then drain/fill and run it (wheels spinning) for a few minutes. Then drain/fill again & again. Nothing magic about that. But use Honda ATF without additives.
Unless the fluid on the transmission dipstick looks really bad, I'd drain/fill it and drive around a bit then drain/fill again. Each time, drain it into a clean pan so you can look for crud in the fluid you just drained out. That's how I would judge how many times to drain/fill. If it's only 70k from a rebuild, I'll GUESS it's not that bad.
Thread Starter
|
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 66
From: Minnesota
About the "total" ATF change...
When you drain/fill, that only gets about 1/3 of the total fluid. You can't drain the torque converter. The dealer can lift the car, then drain/fill and run it (wheels spinning) for a few minutes. Then drain/fill again & again. Nothing magic about that. But use Honda ATF without additives.
Unless the fluid on the transmission dipstick looks really bad, I'd drain/fill it and drive around a bit then drain/fill again. Each time, drain it into a clean pan so you can look for crud in the fluid you just drained out. That's how I would judge how many times to drain/fill. If it's only 70k from a rebuild, I'll GUESS it's not that bad.
When you drain/fill, that only gets about 1/3 of the total fluid. You can't drain the torque converter. The dealer can lift the car, then drain/fill and run it (wheels spinning) for a few minutes. Then drain/fill again & again. Nothing magic about that. But use Honda ATF without additives.
Unless the fluid on the transmission dipstick looks really bad, I'd drain/fill it and drive around a bit then drain/fill again. Each time, drain it into a clean pan so you can look for crud in the fluid you just drained out. That's how I would judge how many times to drain/fill. If it's only 70k from a rebuild, I'll GUESS it's not that bad.
Is it just the ATF DW1 or is there more than one kind of Honda fluid? How many quarts is this likely to take? Do I just fill down the dipstick tube... do I have to wait for it to settle or anything or just fill to level, start, and go around a few mins?
Is there a trans filter I can reach and change too? (calling the dealer I got two answers, "there is no filter for that to change" and "we dont change the filter as a part of the normal $230 trans fluid change recommended by Honda at 60k for your vehicle" which is ambiguous) Anyone got a youtube video on all this? (that isn't full of comments of people saying "thats the wrong way to do it" making me distrust the video because I dont know) Or just pictures...
Do I need a replacement crush washer when putting the plug back in? For some reason they sell together on amazon in multipacks... wonder if it's use once or something.
Last edited by fixinmyself; Oct 15, 2018 at 03:28 PM. Reason: removed recall question/VIN verified it was done
Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,070
From: Southern New Hampshire
Use Honda DW-1, accept no substitutions.
If I recall correctly, there is no user serviceable filter on your transmission. If/when your transmission fails, most folks over in the Acura world swear by the BAYA coded transmission from the 2006-2007 Honda Accord; the word on the street is it is a greatly upgraded unit compared to earlier V6 5-Speed automatics. The good news is they are interchangeable (with the purchase of the correct new torque converter; different bolt spacing) with your transmission and low mileage used transmissions are both plentiful and inexpensive at a junk yard near you.
If I recall correctly, there is no user serviceable filter on your transmission. If/when your transmission fails, most folks over in the Acura world swear by the BAYA coded transmission from the 2006-2007 Honda Accord; the word on the street is it is a greatly upgraded unit compared to earlier V6 5-Speed automatics. The good news is they are interchangeable (with the purchase of the correct new torque converter; different bolt spacing) with your transmission and low mileage used transmissions are both plentiful and inexpensive at a junk yard near you.
Super Moderator
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 18,398
From: Wisconsin
I had a 4-cyl automatic, not a V6. I assume it's the same process (it's NOT the same transmission).
Fill through the dipstick. On the 1998 4-cyl auto trans, the dipstick hole was very low & the dipstick itself was very short. With a long dipstick in a long tube common sense tells you to let it settle just so you don't get a false reading from fluid that's still dripping down through the tube.
Honda ATF used to carry a different number, but the DW-1 is current and it's what you want.
Fill through the dipstick. On the 1998 4-cyl auto trans, the dipstick hole was very low & the dipstick itself was very short. With a long dipstick in a long tube common sense tells you to let it settle just so you don't get a false reading from fluid that's still dripping down through the tube.
Honda ATF used to carry a different number, but the DW-1 is current and it's what you want.
Thread Starter
|
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 66
From: Minnesota
Use Honda DW-1, accept no substitutions.
If I recall correctly, there is no user serviceable filter on your transmission. If/when your transmission fails, most folks over in the Acura world swear by the BAYA coded transmission from the 2006-2007 Honda Accord; the word on the street is it is a greatly upgraded unit compared to earlier V6 5-Speed automatics. The good news is they are interchangeable (with the purchase of the correct new torque converter; different bolt spacing) with your transmission and low mileage used transmissions are both plentiful and inexpensive at a junk yard near you.
If I recall correctly, there is no user serviceable filter on your transmission. If/when your transmission fails, most folks over in the Acura world swear by the BAYA coded transmission from the 2006-2007 Honda Accord; the word on the street is it is a greatly upgraded unit compared to earlier V6 5-Speed automatics. The good news is they are interchangeable (with the purchase of the correct new torque converter; different bolt spacing) with your transmission and low mileage used transmissions are both plentiful and inexpensive at a junk yard near you.
How hard is it to swap the transmission? I mean i'm sure it's a 10 of 10/hardest job possible - but i've done a clutch before when I had nothing to lose on another car (made harder by no cherry picker/much harder instructions to work around) and it worked perfect for another 120k, and i'm wondering what big things i'd need combined with ample time to follow instructions if I could get another trans in there for $1000 or less that would give me another 80k or something miles of reliable use. Like does everything drop out of the bottom requiring at least a low rise hoist or whats the approximate process? (I didn't want to buy a hoist for the job... but if i'm going to end up with one anyways... it's something that will get more use in the future. I just dont want to put much over 1k more into THIS car.)
FWIW i picked up the fluid and crush washer and got a sheet from the dealer showing where the fill and drain plugs were, so I hope to do it in the next day or two.
Thread Starter
|
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 66
From: Minnesota
As of this moment all i'm trying to do is limp the car to last until I can get two of my other junker vehicles working. (including a 94 accord timing belt that I tried to do last year and this summer but chronic back pain made a real PITA to try. i'm no better now but I have no choice but to force it)
I'm searching ebay and stuff and BAYA transmissions are mentioned.. these are the good ones, even if they show 03-05? Ie - https://www.ebay.com/itm/2003-2004-2...27e6:rk:1:pf:0 - i dont care if anyone buys that one, this is nothing i'm doing now. I'm not up for a full trans swap just trying to figure out future shopping. Ie - all I have to do is search for either a BAYA transmission, or any 06-07 Accord transmission with torque converter, and it should be good?
I already HAVE the car. I potentially am able to park it (garaged even) for up to two years until I can tackle a bigger project. This was meant to become a fun car too and maybe it still will, even if i'm not sure if it can be a practical car in the meanwhile I was also trying to have it be. I just know I dont want to pay someone to rebuild the original trans for $3500 again just to have it last another 70k... it sounds like a future swap is the only viable plan.
But if i'm going to that much work i'm wondering if I will be in fun mode by then, can those BAYA transmissions either as they are or with mild changes handle power increases like forced induction on the V6? :P Since the junkyard engines are so cheap i'm not too worried if I lunch one, and my state has E85 fuel everywhere, so maybe the fun car gets upgraded to the really fun car by then.
Is JDM any better than like that ebay link for a BAYA rebuilt trans? I'd think shipping add to the cost to make it no better than the ebay option.
I'm searching ebay and stuff and BAYA transmissions are mentioned.. these are the good ones, even if they show 03-05? Ie - https://www.ebay.com/itm/2003-2004-2...27e6:rk:1:pf:0 - i dont care if anyone buys that one, this is nothing i'm doing now. I'm not up for a full trans swap just trying to figure out future shopping. Ie - all I have to do is search for either a BAYA transmission, or any 06-07 Accord transmission with torque converter, and it should be good?
I already HAVE the car. I potentially am able to park it (garaged even) for up to two years until I can tackle a bigger project. This was meant to become a fun car too and maybe it still will, even if i'm not sure if it can be a practical car in the meanwhile I was also trying to have it be. I just know I dont want to pay someone to rebuild the original trans for $3500 again just to have it last another 70k... it sounds like a future swap is the only viable plan.
But if i'm going to that much work i'm wondering if I will be in fun mode by then, can those BAYA transmissions either as they are or with mild changes handle power increases like forced induction on the V6? :P Since the junkyard engines are so cheap i'm not too worried if I lunch one, and my state has E85 fuel everywhere, so maybe the fun car gets upgraded to the really fun car by then.
Is JDM any better than like that ebay link for a BAYA rebuilt trans? I'd think shipping add to the cost to make it no better than the ebay option.
