Hey guys, disclaimer here: not sure if this is in the right forum or not; my apologies if not.

I have an interesting problem. I went to leave this morning and my car wouldn't start (97 Honda Accord LX, 2.2L non-vtec). I traced the problem to no spark coming out of the coil. Decided to replace the coil and ICM, so I ran down to auto zone and picked them up. Replaced the ICM first, and now the coil gives one single spark as soon as you turn the key, and then nothing. I think the new ICM may be defective. So, I went to Napa instead of Auto Zone, and they gave me an ICM that looked different (had different mounting brackets/mounting position). When I showed them the one that came out of my car, they said that part was in their system as for a 94-96 Accord. Like I said, I have a 97. This is mine:

This is what Napa tried to give me for a 97: http://i.ebayimg.com/t/New-PRELUDE-ACURA-IGNITION-CONTROL-MODULE-IGNITER-Fit-For-HONDA-ACCORD-CIVIC-/00/s/MTYwMFgxNjAw/z/zN4AAMXQ76RR5i5T/$T2eC16FHJHwFG2JIDeD+BR5i5SFkI!~~60_35.JPG

And it's not just Napa, Pep Boys couldn't find the part either. So, my question is this: Does anybody know if it's possible that my car is for some reason running 96 parts? Maybe I have a 96 distributor or some stupid thing like that? I've seen worse happen.

Also, if the ICM doesn't fix this, does anybody know what else I should check? I've checked for voltage on all lines, everything checks out fine. The only normal troubleshooting step I haven't taken yet is checking continuity on the wiring between the ICM and the ECM; I was hoping to avoid having to get into the ECM. The coil tests fine. Also, this happened overnight. I drove the car yesterday. So... it was sudden.

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance!

 

There's two different distributors, Hitachi and TEC.

The igniter in the picture is for a TEC distributor.

Here's a link regarding troubleshooting for a no start condition.
Part 1 -How to Troubleshoot a No Start (Honda 2.2L, 2.3L)

 

Thanks Redbull, but I figured it out before I even got to see your reply. I was aware that there were two different distributors, but the other one I saw was totally different.

In any different the problem I had was an ungrounded coil. To anybody who has the same problem and reads this in the future, the coil is a chassis ground, meaning the wire harness doesn't include a ground; the coil is grounded by the bolts that mount it. My problem in troubleshooting was that, for easy access purposes, I only reattached one of the bolts for grounding purposes. Evidently, the coil needs a stronger connection to ground to put out a constant spark, so you have to attach, and tighten, all three mounting bolts.

Thanks again Redbull, and I hope this helps you if you're reading this for your own DIY project

 

Hey guys, I'm back :/ so replacing the igniter and grounding the coil fixed the problem that day, but the next morning it wouldn't start again. When I got home that evening it started right up. Thinking the coil wasn't getting power when it was supposed to, consistently, I replaced the main relay. I left my car in the garage that night, and the following morning (yesterday) it fired just fine. I was working until 1AM, so I was driving a lot yesterday, about 190-200 miles, and it was fine. I parked outside again last night and it won't fire again. The only difference I can figure is that the car is cold. Any ideas on what could cause no spark in cold weather? Just for laughs here's a question. If there's a crack in the cap, could cold weather be forcing condensation in and not allowing anything to fire? I mean can the coil not produce spark because of moisture in the cap? Or would the coil still spark and the rotor just wouldn't transfer the spark to the plugs? Is there a chance that temperature could be changing resistance in the wire set (I'm measuring the spark by holding the wire coming off the coil to something else and watching the spark arc across) that wouldn't allow the wire to pass enough power when the wire is too cold? It's in the 30's here, by the way. I've read that it could be the idle control or the temp sensor not functioning and telling the car it needs more fuel/air, but the problem, so far as I can tell, has nothing to do with fuel or air, but a lack of spark to ignite those pieces. I'm just stumped at the fact that it seems it's completely based on temperature, and I can't troubleshoot it because the only time it won't start is when I have to leave for work, and when it doesn't start I take my moms car and just drop her off at her work. When I get home, the car fires right.

Please excuse typos, I'm writing this on my phone...

 

Yes, moisture can cause no start by shorting spark inside the distributor, or shorting spark from wires to ground.

A good test is to spray the distributor and wires w/ a mist of water at night under low/no light condition. If you see sparks jumping and/or engine missing, you have a problem w/ moisture. Wires should be obvious, but distributor may be more difficult to detect.

Be sure fuel pump is running when no-start occurs. Listen carefully when you turn keyswitch to On (not Start) for pump to come on and run for 2-3 secs and go off. If you don't hear those, no-start is certain and it's either Main Fuel Relay or Fuel Pump.

good luck

 

Look for evidence of tracking arc across the surface of the distributor cap. Inner or outer surface.

Once you get those tracks, it's difficult to stop the arcing. Fix is usually a new distributor cap, becuase the arc etches a track across the shiny surface, and that attracts moisture from dew in the air, etc. Plus a bit of carbon in that track, makes it real difficult to clean.

 

Texas, I didn't have a chance to try the water-mist test, but I just replaced the cap and wire set. Unfortunately it's still not running :/ The fuel pump is definitely running.

Jim, I didn't find a ring, but the points in the cap had a fair amount of carbon build up so I threw a new cap on hoping that would work; it didn't, sadly. I didn't replace the rotor, but it looked clean. I think I replaced the cap and rotor barely 6 months ago or so.

I also tested the wires harness going to the coil. Of the three contacts, only one had voltage with the key in the on position. Unfortunately, I have forgotten which one it was and I'm not ready to go back out in the snow and check it again. But does this sound right? Or should there be more than one line with voltage? I know one line is supposed to pulse, but I think that only happens when the engine is cranking or running? In any case, does one charged wire sound strange at all?

At this point, I have replaced the ICM, distributor cap, wire set, and main relay. The next thing I can think of is the coil?

Also, wondering if this could be a part of it: My mom was on another forum and found a recall for 97 Honda Accords (what I have) said "electrical contacts in the ignition switch can degrade due to the high electrical current passing through the switch when the vehicle is started." Could the ignition switch just be dead?

Any thoughts?

Thanks!

 

I think that's right; only one wire has power when you simply turn on the key.

One wire is power to the distributor assembly.
One wire is pulsing signal to the ICM, only when the engine is cranking or running.
If external-coil, one wire is pulsing signal from ICM to coil.
Other wires are signals from timing sensors inside distributor, only when turning.

If the ignition switch was bad, you wouldn't have power to that one wire. HOWEVER... Can you hook up a wire and monitor that power while you are actually cranking? I guess it's possible for the ignition switch to have burned contacts only in the "START" position? In that case you'd get power when the key is "ON" but then the power would turn off when you twist the key to "START".

 

You have not definitively confirmed that fuel supply is available. Check that fuel pump comes on for 2-3 secs and goes off w/ Check Engine Light going off at same time. If you don't hear the pump, engine will not start.

Do you have a timing light? A timing light inductive pickup can confirm spark to ignition wires.

good luck

 

Texas, yes the fuel pump is definitely running. I can hear it running for a few seconds when I turn the key. Also, as I originally thought the problem was no fuel, I even went as far as pulling the fuel line off the rail to find out. It's definitely getting fuel. It is also definitely not getting spark from the coil. I don't see a spark on the wire between the coil and the distributor. I unfortunately do not have a timing light. Is there another way to do that test, or should I look into getting a timing light?

Jim, I will check that tonight, hopefully.

Would it be worth replacing the coil? It seems that's all that's left, with the exception of the distributor itself. I guess it seems that's the last cheap fix, in any case.

Thanks guys