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Timing marks way off

  #1  
Old 07-01-2018, 10:51 AM
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Default Timing marks way off

I have a 1997 accord special edition non vtech f22b2 with a tec distributor..somehow the cam is 180 off....i lined up the crank with the timing gear and arrow on oil pump housing. Also the cam UP with lines parallel with cylinder head but the problem is the rotor is facing toward the rear..#4..

i rotated the crank 90 degrees and rotated the cam and watched it until the intake fully closed..now the rockers are both loose on #1..the rotor now faces #1 but now the UP is facing down..wtf...

My question is what should the position on cam lobes be on TDC on the compression stroke? Should it be right past intake and approaching exhaust?

#1 cylinder near timing belt
Rotor facing radiator
Intake lobe 4 o'clock
Exhaust lobe 7 o'clock
UP on cam facing down though
helllllllllllp HHHHHEEEEEELLLLLLLP
 
  #2  
Old 07-01-2018, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by hondaslave1342 View Post
I have a 1997 accord special edition non vtech f22b2 with a tec distributor..somehow the cam is 180 off....i lined up the crank with the timing gear and arrow on oil pump housing. Also the cam UP with lines parallel with cylinder head but the problem is the rotor is facing toward the rear..#4..

i rotated the crank 90 degrees and rotated the cam and watched it until the intake fully closed..now the rockers are both loose on #1..the rotor now faces #1 but now the UP is facing down..wtf...

My question is what should the position on cam lobes be on TDC on the compression stroke? Should it be right past intake and approaching exhaust?

#1 cylinder near timing belt
Rotor facing radiator
Intake lobe 4 o'clock
Exhaust lobe 7 o'clock
UP on cam facing down though
helllllllllllp HHHHHEEEEEELLLLLLLP

Does the engine currently run?
If not you'll need to reset the timing.
 
  #3  
Old 07-01-2018, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by The Toecutter View Post
Does the engine currently run?
If not you'll need to reset the timing.
this is what im attempting..my problem is the cam is upside down but the rockers are both loose on #1...the rotor is facing forward toward #1 on cap but the UP is down...does anyone know what the position the cam lobes should be in at TDC on compression...right pass the intake phase correct .....
 
  #4  
Old 07-01-2018, 11:40 AM
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How about rotating the engine another 90* (half the 180 you already moved it), and see if the timing marks line up. If so, you might find that the distributor drive teeth may have broken off (why the distributor is off).


Another thought is that the engine jumped time.
Did you buy this car like this? Or had you already been driving it, and this suddenly happened?


Just so you know, if the crank gear (on the crankshaft) is moved 2 teeth to the left, the engine will barely run. I bought my 99 like that, and reset the timing. But yours sounds like it moved more than that, which WILL bend the valves if it happened while running.
 
  #5  
Old 07-01-2018, 11:56 AM
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We need some more information on what you have done to the car and why.

Is the car running? Why are you checking the timing marks? What work have you done to the car so far? Was the distributor removed for some reason?

Cylinders are number in order 1, 2, 3, then 4. Cylinder 1 on the F22B2 is on the driver's (left) side of engine and cylinder 4 on the passenger (right) side of the engine?

Left/right sides on vehicles are determined from the view point of sitting in the driver's seat.
 
  #6  
Old 07-01-2018, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by The Toecutter View Post
How about rotating the engine another 90* (half the 180 you already moved it), and see if the timing marks line up. If so, you might find that the distributor drive teeth may have broken off (why the distributor is off).


Another thought is that the engine jumped time.
Did you buy this car like this? Or had you already been driving it, and this suddenly happened?


Just so you know, if the crank gear (on the crankshaft) is moved 2 teeth to the left, the engine will barely run. I bought my 99 like that, and reset the timing. But yours sounds like it moved more than that, which WILL bend the valves if it happened while running.
i bought the car not running and decided to change the tb..i lined up the harmonic balancer on tdc and made sure the UP on the cam sproket was facing up..i took the cap off and it was facing the rear of the car toward #4..the rockers on #4 were loose so its on tdc #4 on the compression stroke.the intake already happened...i took off the tb and rotated the crank 90 so the pistons would be mid stroke because its a flat plane crank and now im able to turn the cam..i kept turning watching #1 valve action...cylinder near timing belt...i turned it and watched the intake fully open and completely shut..the lobe is 180 from rocker and the exhaust valve will be opening..both intake and exhaust valve rockers are loose on #1...compression stroke...correct....?...now the rotor is facing towards radiator..#1 on cap..but the UP is down..crazzy..the distributor is in correctly...i tried it 180...only goes in one way..my theory is someone damaged the cam and notches out a new key 180 from the original keyway..

Im i correct to say the intake valve should be 180 from rocker and the exhaust on its way up on #1 TDC on compression stroke?
The intake is tight slightly on #4 and the exhaust loose..intake about to happen..thankss..
 
  #7  
Old 07-01-2018, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by PAhonda View Post
We need some more information on what you have done to the car and why.

Is the car running? Why are you checking the timing marks? What work have you done to the car so far? Was the distributor removed for some reason?

Cylinders are number in order 1, 2, 3, then 4. Cylinder 1 on the F22B2 is on the driver's (left) side of engine and cylinder 4 on the passenger (right) side of the engine?

Left/right sides on vehicles are determined from the view point of sitting in the driver's seat.
correct..#1 drivers side..#1 on cap for f22b2 is facing forward..with the crank lined up and cam UP the rotor faces toward rear..#4 on cap..when i rotate cam to face rotor toward #1 on cap the UP is down...with the UP in the 6 o'clock position the rockers on #1..cylinder on left near timing belt are loose and intake has already happened and lobe is 180 from rocker..exhaust is on its way up......#4 exhaust is loose and and intake is about to happen...slight drag on rocker..valve overlap..#4 is TDC on the exhaust...correct..
 
  #8  
Old 07-01-2018, 04:25 PM
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Something is very odd here.

The crankshaft turns twice for every turn of the camshaft. The crankshaft TDC mark will line up to TDC with either the cam arrow up or the cam arrow down (with the horizontal notches lined with the cylinder head).

We are missing something and hopefully basic.

What direction are you turning the crankshaft? Looking at the engine from the driver's side of the car, the engine should turn counter-clockwise (the same direction as the wheels turn when you are driving).

Take a close look at the rotor to make sure you are looking at the contact on the rotor and not the opposite end. I've done this on my old 95 accord, and I sometimes think I know what I'm doing!
 
  #9  
Old 07-01-2018, 06:20 PM
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I'm turning it ccw..its the weirdest thing ever..with it cam down the contact on the rotor is facing #1..and all rockers are loose...i put a straw in #1 and watched it .On the way down intake opened and closed and when it came back up which is TDC compression correct..the arrow Up is down..it has a fresh head on it..i put it back together..spun it around a few times..set tension..started right up but still runs the same choppy idle...no power..but at a higher rpm it runs...i took off the valve cover..set to TDC and checked the valve clearance...extremely loose...012 on the exhaust..i put a .020 and it fit..let it completely cool down before i checked it

could extremely loose valve or tight settings cause erratic idle and no power?
 
  #10  
Old 07-01-2018, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by hondaslave1342 View Post
I'm turning it ccw..its the weirdest thing ever..with it cam down the contact on the rotor is facing #1..and all rockers are loose...i put a straw in #1 and watched it .On the way down intake opened and closed and when it came back up which is TDC compression correct..the arrow Up is down..it has a fresh head on it..i put it back together..spun it around a few times..set tension..started right up but still runs the same choppy idle...no power..but at a higher rpm it runs...i took off the valve cover..set to TDC and checked the valve clearance...extremely loose...012 on the exhaust..i put a .020 and it fit..let it completely cool down before i checked it

could extremely loose valve or tight settings cause erratic idle and no power?
if i gas it in neutral as the rpms raise the engine is choppy until it reaches its desired throttle setting..but at that rpm it dont miss..clogged cat..fuel injector..timing...new oem cap..rotor..plugs..and wires...valves are noisy..at idle..pinging sound at higher rpm..im done...at idle it will be smooth than start to miss like a fast machine gun than stop...loud puff puff sound of tail pipe and front of cat
 

Last edited by hondaslave1342; 07-01-2018 at 09:19 PM. Reason: Dont need

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