Worn-Out + Sticky Brake or Bad Bearing? - 09 Accord
#1
07-26-2014, 11:19 AM
Worn-Out + Sticky Brake or Bad Bearing? - 09 Accord
Hi everyone. Just when I was starting to truly enjoy driving problem free, this happens. This is a lengthy amount of text, bear with me because this is a confusing situation for me. Scroll down for a TL;DR.
As I drive, I hear a horrible, horrible, high pitched scratching/grinding noise coming from my rear left wheel. I have about 11,000 miles driven on those pads and I never got around to changing the pin positions to prevent the premature wear problem that Accords are gifted with. Ironically, I was meaning to do it in a few weeks, but now I have no choice. After looking at that particular pad and comparing to the rear right side brake, there is a lot less "meat" on this pad as compared to the right (I replaced the rear right side brake a few thousands mile later because of a caliper issue). But still, it doesn't look like it would need replacing.
This is where it gets interesting. I hear this noise usually when braking lightly, and as I brake harder it goes away or softens. My brakes in general feel a bit soft, I have to give a lot more pressure than normal to get a good stop. However, I hear this noise every time I go over a bump or make a turn. You can hardly hear it while driving with the windows closed, but when it's open it's unbearable. A friend of mine heard my car a block down the road. What confuses me is if you can hear this noise without braking at all, do I have a sticky brake or is it a bearing issue?
Could this be a bearing issue instead? Before this high pitched scratching/grinding, as I would drive I would hear a loud droning/humming sound coming from the back. The shop said not to worry about it until it gets worse, since it's possible it's a bad bearing. If possible I'd love to kill two birds with one stone, but I want to be absolutely positive before I spent hundreds of dollars on a repair. If it's two separate issues I'll buy the pads tonight and fix the grinding problem myself.
Thanks in advance guys.
TL;DR:
As I drive, I hear a horrible, horrible, high pitched scratching/grinding noise coming from my rear left wheel. I have about 11,000 miles driven on those pads and I never got around to changing the pin positions to prevent the premature wear problem that Accords are gifted with. Ironically, I was meaning to do it in a few weeks, but now I have no choice. After looking at that particular pad and comparing to the rear right side brake, there is a lot less "meat" on this pad as compared to the right (I replaced the rear right side brake a few thousands mile later because of a caliper issue). But still, it doesn't look like it would need replacing.
This is where it gets interesting. I hear this noise usually when braking lightly, and as I brake harder it goes away or softens. My brakes in general feel a bit soft, I have to give a lot more pressure than normal to get a good stop. However, I hear this noise every time I go over a bump or make a turn. You can hardly hear it while driving with the windows closed, but when it's open it's unbearable. A friend of mine heard my car a block down the road. What confuses me is if you can hear this noise without braking at all, do I have a sticky brake or is it a bearing issue?
Could this be a bearing issue instead? Before this high pitched scratching/grinding, as I would drive I would hear a loud droning/humming sound coming from the back. The shop said not to worry about it until it gets worse, since it's possible it's a bad bearing. If possible I'd love to kill two birds with one stone, but I want to be absolutely positive before I spent hundreds of dollars on a repair. If it's two separate issues I'll buy the pads tonight and fix the grinding problem myself.
Thanks in advance guys.
TL;DR:
- Braking power gradually reduced, squeaking/scratching noise coming from rear left wheel
- Pin position never adjusted to remedy premature break wear problem, only 11,000 miles driven on rear pads
- Noise persists even when not braking
- Droning/humming sound coming from back of car while driving
- Worn out pad or bad bearing or both?
#2
07-26-2014, 11:33 AM
May be worn out pad. Depending on how worn out the pad is, the wear indicator can make noise even without stepping on the brake pedal.
You should clean and lubricate the slide pin with high temperature silicone brake grease too.
You should clean and lubricate the slide pin with high temperature silicone brake grease too.
#4
07-26-2014, 12:48 PM
What confuses me is how does the wear indicator make noise without even braking? I may not have a sticky caliper after all.
And yeah, the possible bearing droning noise is just a noise for now, I can tolerate it until this gets fixed. Is there any way to know for sure if the brake pad is worn without taking off the wheel?
#6
07-29-2014, 08:41 AM
Not sure of the question?
To check the pads, yes the tire will have to come off for a proper inspection.
The wear indicator is designed to make a noise when the brakes are not applied. That way the noise won't be confused with/by another issue.
To check the pads, yes the tire will have to come off for a proper inspection.
The wear indicator is designed to make a noise when the brakes are not applied. That way the noise won't be confused with/by another issue.
#7
07-29-2014, 09:48 AM
Handa.com (one of my favorite websites to order OEM factory parts for cheap) sells rear pads with brake grease and a caliper lubricant for 65$ including shipping, I'll order that tonight.
What confuses me is how does the wear indicator make noise without even braking? I may not have a sticky caliper after all.
And yeah, the possible bearing droning noise is just a noise for now, I can tolerate it until this gets fixed. Is there any way to know for sure if the brake pad is worn without taking off the wheel?
What confuses me is how does the wear indicator make noise without even braking? I may not have a sticky caliper after all.
And yeah, the possible bearing droning noise is just a noise for now, I can tolerate it until this gets fixed. Is there any way to know for sure if the brake pad is worn without taking off the wheel?
2. If the pads are wearing down to where the indicator is, it can make noise even if you don’t step on the brake pedal. The Honda calipers are a floating type (sliding), it moves in and out relative to the rotor and has one only on the inboard side of the rotor. As your pads wear, the piston extends out closer to the rotor. When the pads are really thin and almost completely worn, the caliper will hold the pad close enough to cause the wear indicator to make noise even if the brakes are not applied, especially if there is uneven pad wear on one side. Initially, the brake noise from the wear indicator may not always make noise even if you don’t apply the brakes, as the wear indicator may not always be in contact with the rotor. Eventually, if the pads are not changed, it will make noise almost all the time.
3. The 2009 Accord has the Traction Control System (TCS). Although this won’t happen that often, if one wheel loses traction, the VSA-modulator control unit can apply braking pressure to the spinning wheel, even when you don’t press the brake pedal.
4. The Honda brake pad kits usually just come with the pads, M-77 moly grease, shims, and V springs (with the revised Honda rear pads). The moly grease is to be used on the shims, pad backing plates, and retainers. The kits doesn’t include the grease for the caliper slide pins. Do not use the M-77 grease on the slide pins. Use something like high-temperature silicone brake grease on the slide pins.
5. Before installing the rear pads, you should turn the pistons so that the piston grooves (cut-out) aligns with inner pad tab.
#8
07-29-2014, 10:22 AM
Based on the symptoms you described, my guess is that you have uneven pad wear on one edge of the inner pad.
If the slide pin is corroded or pitted badly, replace it. Otherwise, clean and re-grease. Make sure to align the piston groove with the inner pad tab like I previously mentioned.
If the slide pin is corroded or pitted badly, replace it. Otherwise, clean and re-grease. Make sure to align the piston groove with the inner pad tab like I previously mentioned.
#9
07-30-2014, 06:20 PM
1. The brake pad wear indicator is only on one edge of the inner pad. There is no wear indicator on the outer pad. You normally have to at least jack up the car to examine the inner pads. Unless you have brake lining thickness gauges to stick in to the inner pad without removing the wheel, removing the wheel to inspect is the way. Although the caliper has an inspection hole in the center, sometimes, there may be uneven wear on one end of the pad; so the pad wear may actually even be worse than what you see by just looking through the inspection hole in the caliper, without lifting the caliper to see.
2. If the pads are wearing down to where the indicator is, it can make noise even if you don’t step on the brake pedal. The Honda calipers are a floating type (sliding), it moves in and out relative to the rotor and has one only on the inboard side of the rotor. As your pads wear, the piston extends out closer to the rotor. When the pads are really thin and almost completely worn, the caliper will hold the pad close enough to cause the wear indicator to make noise even if the brakes are not applied, especially if there is uneven pad wear on one side. Initially, the brake noise from the wear indicator may not always make noise even if you don’t apply the brakes, as the wear indicator may not always be in contact with the rotor. Eventually, if the pads are not changed, it will make noise almost all the time.
3. The 2009 Accord has the Traction Control System (TCS). Although this won’t happen that often, if one wheel loses traction, the VSA-modulator control unit can apply braking pressure to the spinning wheel, even when you don’t press the brake pedal.
4. The Honda brake pad kits usually just come with the pads, M-77 moly grease, shims, and V springs (with the revised Honda rear pads). The moly grease is to be used on the shims, pad backing plates, and retainers. The kits doesn’t include the grease for the caliper slide pins. Do not use the M-77 grease on the slide pins. Use something like high-temperature silicone brake grease on the slide pins.
5. Before installing the rear pads, you should turn the pistons so that the piston grooves (cut-out) aligns with inner pad tab.
2. If the pads are wearing down to where the indicator is, it can make noise even if you don’t step on the brake pedal. The Honda calipers are a floating type (sliding), it moves in and out relative to the rotor and has one only on the inboard side of the rotor. As your pads wear, the piston extends out closer to the rotor. When the pads are really thin and almost completely worn, the caliper will hold the pad close enough to cause the wear indicator to make noise even if the brakes are not applied, especially if there is uneven pad wear on one side. Initially, the brake noise from the wear indicator may not always make noise even if you don’t apply the brakes, as the wear indicator may not always be in contact with the rotor. Eventually, if the pads are not changed, it will make noise almost all the time.
3. The 2009 Accord has the Traction Control System (TCS). Although this won’t happen that often, if one wheel loses traction, the VSA-modulator control unit can apply braking pressure to the spinning wheel, even when you don’t press the brake pedal.
4. The Honda brake pad kits usually just come with the pads, M-77 moly grease, shims, and V springs (with the revised Honda rear pads). The moly grease is to be used on the shims, pad backing plates, and retainers. The kits doesn’t include the grease for the caliper slide pins. Do not use the M-77 grease on the slide pins. Use something like high-temperature silicone brake grease on the slide pins.
5. Before installing the rear pads, you should turn the pistons so that the piston grooves (cut-out) aligns with inner pad tab.
In regards to the revised Honda rear pads, I got my pads from Handa.com, like I mentioned. But I'm not sure if they're revised or not. Will I be able to fix this premature pad wear issue if I don't have the revised pads? Will switching the pin position (as the service bulletin suggested) be enough?
I have yet to receive the pads and greases/lubricants, they should be here by next week. What I did do is take off the wheel and manually turn the rotor; the brake is definitely causing that horrible squeaking and is much more worn down than the other rear side. I've never changed the rear brakes myself, however I know there are a ton of guides out there anyways. Plus, your information helped a lot.
#10
07-30-2014, 06:31 PM
The instructions regarding switching the rear caliper slide pins are included with the revised pads, they were never published as a Honda Technical Service Bulletin (TSB).
By now, all dealer should be selling the revised pads. The pad compound has been changed, which makes the biggest difference in premature wear. Switching the slide pin should help too. When I changed the rear pads, I actually forgot to put on the V springs because I was busy greasing the shims, etc. I didn't bother opening it back up to add the V springs, as changing pads is not a big deal to me. Even without the V springs, the rear brakes are lasting way longer than the original pads.
By now, all dealer should be selling the revised pads. The pad compound has been changed, which makes the biggest difference in premature wear. Switching the slide pin should help too. When I changed the rear pads, I actually forgot to put on the V springs because I was busy greasing the shims, etc. I didn't bother opening it back up to add the V springs, as changing pads is not a big deal to me. Even without the V springs, the rear brakes are lasting way longer than the original pads.