=shipo;358687]Using BG fluid (or any other fluid for that matter) is a very bad idea. Why? Because the Honda clutches in their automatic transmissions are designed for a very specific coefficient of friction, and it is HIGHLY unlikely other ATFs have the spcific friction rate necessary for proper clutch operation. Just because any given ATF *might* use a superior base oil does not in any way mean it is better for the transmission.

Long story short, if one has a properly functioning Honda transmission, using a non-Honda product in said transmission will most likely shorten the life of said transmission. If the transmission is already on the way out, you've got nothing to lose.[/QUOTE]
As I said I am not a engineer by any means and agree with you that you cannot go wrong with the OE fluids although with technology changing as it has I would differ with your opinion, I cannot believe that Honda could make a fluid that could not be duplicated by another company. Honda at some point has got to work on there cars I guess. I do not understand that a company like BG would issue a publication that says there fluid will work in something that actually has no factual data. My info is strictly on the job , I service foreign and domestic and have a large customer base as you could imagine after 55 years. I believe synthetic fluids are better today although some people may not. I would say if you went to a quicklube and they install a transmission fluid then add additive to make it Honda ATF-Z!- DW-1 no way, I see it all the time. And the Honda will always blow it out the pressure valve when it heats up. As I said this is a debate that neither of us CAN EVER WIN , when in doubt use OE, I think there is a better mousetrap today. I am not a fluid salesman or a stock holder in Honda or any oil company, just a guy who makes a living working on Autos. As I am sure would agree things have change so fast it is amazing. I am attaching some spec sheets from Honda and BG. Very interesting debate and it could go on and on. Have a great day
PS: 10 years ago I would agree with you 100%

 

.....

 

It sounds like you are confusing the quality of the oil component of various ATFs with their suitability for use in any given automatic transmission; just because any given oil uses a superior base stock does not in any way mean it will be suitable for numerous transmission designs.

Like I tried to explain before, it is the coefficient of friction built into the specific ATFs which enable the transmission to shift properly. If a given ATF is too slippery, then the clutches will slip too long during an engagement (and in some cases never engage at all), and as such wear out far too soon. Conversely, if any given ATF isn't as slippery as the transmission designers intended, the clutches could grab too quickly and can damage either the clutches or the surrounding mechanicals.

With new electronically controlled automatic transmissions, the situation can get even worse; in some transmissions, the computer senses a clutch engagement which didn't occur during a specified time window, and it disengages the clutch and tries to reengage it, again, and again, and again. Guess how long a transmission polluted with the incorrect ATF will last in a scenario like this.

As for the BG attachment, that they say their fluid is recommended for so many transmissions from so many makers, means it most likely isn't healthy for any of them; there is simply no way to have any one ATF which can work in such a wide array of transmissions.

 

You make a very good point, I would love to see data from a independent testing facility comparing the fluids. I am not aware of that research, If you have some I would love to see it. I understand completely what your saying. My feelings are a little different than yours, I am in the environment all day , sounds like you have some background in fluids. Do you feel that a Honda fluid could not be duplicated. I can remember the old tranny guys capturing the old FORD fluid and putting back in the vehicle, why was that. Were the clutches made out of different materials then than they are today. When in doubt use the OE. I will not be sucked into the web of if you own this vehicle you must run this fluid, That is exactly where they want you to do.This is a no win for me and you as the wide world web will show. If someone wants to go to Honda so be it. I said this was my point of view only. If you or anyone reading this does not agree to to Honda and buy there stuff. They say there brakes are better and you must replace and not turn turn there rotors, when indeed with the materials there metals are made of they are absolutely correct.I completely understand what you are saying, I just do not buy it. After all nothing last forever. I am a new poster here and certainly am not trying to lead someone down a road to tranny destruction, by the OE . Heat is the killer to all fluids as you no. You get it I can tell. If they have a product as you say, I am sure that would violate some Federal Laws. Although we will see in the near future The big guys HONDA, FORD CHEVY ETC will freeze all there info and we will be forced into going to a dealer for repair, no software will be available for there autos. That troubles me and should everyone in America. Gotta run , have a good one.

 

That is actually Lexus brake hold down clips sorry.

 

Transmission Elements Would this work in a Honda
Signature Series Fuel-Efficient Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid
A fuel efficient automatic transmission fluid recommended for GM, Ford and Toyota transmissions where lighter viscosity oil is required. Provides the same excellent protection and performance as AMSOIL ATF. Recommended for vehicles requiring GM DEXRON® VI, Ford MERCON® LV and SP, Honda DW-1, Nissan Matic-S and Toyota WS fluid specifications.

 

I'm sure Honda ATF is relatively easy to reverse engineer; that said, I don't believe I've ever seen an aftermarket ATF specifically formulated for Honda (and only Honda) transmissions. I have no idea whether that is because Honda has some sort of a trademark lock or other patent blocks on their DW-1 formulation or if other makers just don't see a big enough market (hard to believe).

Thinking about another maker with a fairly unique ATF formulation, Chrysler specifies ATF+4 for virtually all of their automatic transmissions; use something else and your transmission will most likely end up toast. At least in the case of Chrysler, they are also smart enough to license the duplication of that formulation so you can buy ATF+4 from Valvoline, Super Tech (Walmart), and many others in addition to the MOPAR brand. Honda may just have decided they want to be the only game in town.

Does that stop other manufacturers from saying stuff like, "Compatible with Honda DW-1"? I don't know, I'm not an Intellectual Property specialist.

 

Honda may just have decided they want to be the only game in town. ILLEGAL: Quote Federal Trade Commission Website=FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION

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All transmission's will were out as we both no, I wonder how many fail with Honda fluid that we never hear about , the guy goes to Honda and they say your transmission is toast. Customer says go ahead and put a new one in . I have know indication that using a fluid that is a higher grade than what Honda requires causes destruction. I would like to see what Honda says about there so called on fluid application, I have been around this all my life sir. I will not buy end to the fact that Honda is the only fluid to run in there car, if I see the spec sheets and feel it is a quality product I should be able to try it. Who is to say Hondas fluid is not causing premature destruction of the transmissions , google Honda complaints, Trannys are at the top, most of the ones I have seen destroyed has Honda fluid in them. I change them all the time and have yet to have a problem if It is been done at correct times. I am doing a 93 Accord today, 123k transmission issue, as we know after they slip consumers think they can change the fluid and it may fix it, not true. I will let you know the outcome of this car. It almost sounds like the Michelin Honda PAX tire experiment that again the consumers were left holding the bag with. I am about to hang it up sir, retire, I am not for vehicle specific fluids because when that happens the consumer will have to carry every car back to a dealer and that my friend is not far to the consumer. I have people walk in my shop everyday and say I just left the dealer and LOOK at this estimate. That is what scares me. I know some dealers that are good and I know some that just hose people. We must stop the big from car specific diagnostics, Chrysler just changed to Siemens PLM software, 2013 and up, the module to hook up cost me 6500 plus 2000k a year license agreement. If you think it is bad now wait in 10 years unless we can get Big Brother to step in , this is unhealthy for the population. I really do not buy your theory, do you work for Honda, if so explain the PAX tire issue, I want to hear Honda's side of that one.

 

Do not misunderstand me , I like Honda vehicles, I have just heard about this tranny issue so much with consumers, it is almost weekly, I think there is a problem as a lot of other people do. Maybe a different fluid will cause longer life, this is a problem to others as well. Check out this link.Honda Accord and Civic Transmission Failure

 

While I believe all the stuff about Honda ATF having a different mix of friction-modifiers, and not being the same; I cannot believe that Honda is in the business of MAKING THE FLUID. Honda doesn't manufacture their own spark plugs (NGK) nor do they manufacture their own tires (Bridgestone & Michelin). I bet they don't manufacture their own engine-oil, brake fluid, or ATF either.

You'd think that someone would offer the ATF, just like a couple companies offer Honda-spec power steering fluid. I've just never seen it. And I don't believe it can possibly be covered by the "good for all-makes & all-models" labels on some fluids.