Fuel delivery issue?
#1
08-19-2010, 11:09 PM
Fuel delivery issue?
89 Honda Acorrd with A20A1 carbureted. You'll need some history so here we go...I was having some issues with the car running, it would get to a stoplight and start to choke out, let off the brake and hit the gas...it would go back to its usual idle. Found out that that issue was because of dirty fuel filters, replaced them and the car ran beautifully.
About a week after i discovered that where i thought i'd fixed a water leak, the hose started leaking at the clamp again. Little duct tape and tons of water, i got it home and got a replacement hose the next day. (Whether this is relevant or not, im simply giving the history) So of course when i took the hose off the coolant and water drained out of the block (right under the distributor but in front of the thermostat). It got some wires wet but i figure they're ok.
So about a week after i fixed that i noticed the car was running rough again and i thought it was just bad gas that i had gotten (the reason i had to replace the filters). Then one night i decided i wanted to go for a little drive, i pulled out of my driveway fine, put it in 1st and went on my way, i didnt get but a quarter of a block down the road when the car dies out of nowhere. I start it again, it dies instantly, i did the same thing over and over and it would start up fine but die just a second later. So i pulled into a dead end street starting and stopping the whole turn, parked it and started checking things out. Couldnt find a single thing wrong but i had to get the car home so i could figure out what was going on. My only solution was to sit there and try to keep it running long enough to get me home, so i decided to floor the accelerator to see if that would change anything...it did, but it ran very very poorly and would often jump around from 3-5000 RPM's in a matter of half a second, of course the clutch was pushed in so theres the why for that. I decided to do this to get it back home, staying around 4000 and only getting to second gear before i got into my driveway, it died right as i turned.
The problem now is that i tested the fuel cut off relay and found it faulty, replaced it. Didnt change anything, it still started up fine, died after. I had my certified mechanic neighbor come over and help me diagnose it the other day, we determined that the fuel pump wasnt working, he couldnt feel or hear it working. Replaced the fuel pump only to discover that it still does the exact same thing. My neighbor was talking about a main relay but i couldnt find one on my car, there probly is one, but i dont know where it is. Yes, yes, it should be under the dash, but where?
While my neighbor was over helping me figure things out, we discovered that the engine bay fuel filter isnt getting as much gas as it use to (its clear). We also noticed that when you turn the key onto number 2, just before starting, it starts to prime the system and stops short...not filling the filter as it use to.
Does anyone have any ideas what to check next?
About a week after i discovered that where i thought i'd fixed a water leak, the hose started leaking at the clamp again. Little duct tape and tons of water, i got it home and got a replacement hose the next day. (Whether this is relevant or not, im simply giving the history) So of course when i took the hose off the coolant and water drained out of the block (right under the distributor but in front of the thermostat). It got some wires wet but i figure they're ok.
So about a week after i fixed that i noticed the car was running rough again and i thought it was just bad gas that i had gotten (the reason i had to replace the filters). Then one night i decided i wanted to go for a little drive, i pulled out of my driveway fine, put it in 1st and went on my way, i didnt get but a quarter of a block down the road when the car dies out of nowhere. I start it again, it dies instantly, i did the same thing over and over and it would start up fine but die just a second later. So i pulled into a dead end street starting and stopping the whole turn, parked it and started checking things out. Couldnt find a single thing wrong but i had to get the car home so i could figure out what was going on. My only solution was to sit there and try to keep it running long enough to get me home, so i decided to floor the accelerator to see if that would change anything...it did, but it ran very very poorly and would often jump around from 3-5000 RPM's in a matter of half a second, of course the clutch was pushed in so theres the why for that. I decided to do this to get it back home, staying around 4000 and only getting to second gear before i got into my driveway, it died right as i turned.
The problem now is that i tested the fuel cut off relay and found it faulty, replaced it. Didnt change anything, it still started up fine, died after. I had my certified mechanic neighbor come over and help me diagnose it the other day, we determined that the fuel pump wasnt working, he couldnt feel or hear it working. Replaced the fuel pump only to discover that it still does the exact same thing. My neighbor was talking about a main relay but i couldnt find one on my car, there probly is one, but i dont know where it is. Yes, yes, it should be under the dash, but where?
While my neighbor was over helping me figure things out, we discovered that the engine bay fuel filter isnt getting as much gas as it use to (its clear). We also noticed that when you turn the key onto number 2, just before starting, it starts to prime the system and stops short...not filling the filter as it use to.
Does anyone have any ideas what to check next?
Last edited by lordsusanoo; 08-19-2010 at 11:12 PM. Reason: left a small detail out
#2
08-20-2010, 01:53 PM
UPDATE
I had my neighbor look through the Haynes manual to see if there was something i was missing, a relay or something somewhere that was causing this. He found nothing. I've tried running the car with both fuel cut off relay's and its the same result time and time again.
I had my neighbor look through the Haynes manual to see if there was something i was missing, a relay or something somewhere that was causing this. He found nothing. I've tried running the car with both fuel cut off relay's and its the same result time and time again.
#3
08-20-2010, 02:48 PM
well...waiting on a reply in my impatience i decided to fiddle with the car again. This time trying different things to see what would happen based on different conditions. Amazing as it is...the car runs now. Only time will tell if it stays that way. I'll run through my tests, perhaps someone will find them useful.
First try - I decided to just start the car normally as a control test. Did the same thing, starts, runs for a second, dies.
Second try - I decided to start the car normally but pump the gas before it had a chance to die...it rumbled and moaned until i let it die by letting off the gas.
Third try - I thought i would try something new, I thought...if i hold the accelerator down while i turn the key on to prime the lines, it should dump fuel right into the carb with little no pressure on the pump, as if the thing was pumping through just the hose. I put the pedal on the floor and turned it on 2, heard the pump turn on and prime. I started the car...it died right off BUT there was a difference in the run time, it went from around a second to nearly a second and a half
Forth try - I figured with try three i had something, so i did it again, this time turning the key on two or three times before turning the motor over. It fired up and continued to run =D.
I let it run for quite some time before shutting it off, around 5-7 minutes. Every once in a while rev'ing the engine to ensure the fuel delivery stayed constant. 2000....3000....4000 RPM's and back down, the engine still purred like it should be. I did this another time after a 2-3 minute wait, did the same thing, rev'd up perfectly and evenly, steadily going back down every time.
My theory is that when i disconnected the fuel pump, the lines became completely full of air and so the pump wasnt able to push enough gas into the lines before the engine died and on try three and four, i allowed all the air to come out as if i disconnected the fuel line as if to bleed it.
First try - I decided to just start the car normally as a control test. Did the same thing, starts, runs for a second, dies.
Second try - I decided to start the car normally but pump the gas before it had a chance to die...it rumbled and moaned until i let it die by letting off the gas.
Third try - I thought i would try something new, I thought...if i hold the accelerator down while i turn the key on to prime the lines, it should dump fuel right into the carb with little no pressure on the pump, as if the thing was pumping through just the hose. I put the pedal on the floor and turned it on 2, heard the pump turn on and prime. I started the car...it died right off BUT there was a difference in the run time, it went from around a second to nearly a second and a half
Forth try - I figured with try three i had something, so i did it again, this time turning the key on two or three times before turning the motor over. It fired up and continued to run =D.
I let it run for quite some time before shutting it off, around 5-7 minutes. Every once in a while rev'ing the engine to ensure the fuel delivery stayed constant. 2000....3000....4000 RPM's and back down, the engine still purred like it should be. I did this another time after a 2-3 minute wait, did the same thing, rev'd up perfectly and evenly, steadily going back down every time.
My theory is that when i disconnected the fuel pump, the lines became completely full of air and so the pump wasnt able to push enough gas into the lines before the engine died and on try three and four, i allowed all the air to come out as if i disconnected the fuel line as if to bleed it.
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