I have a 94 EX with the 4cyl v-tec with 120K original miles.

The problem i am having is that it will suddenly not start.

I purchased the vehicle roughly 5 months ago. After having it a couple weeks i came out of work after a hard all-day rain and found that it hesitated during startup. the first time it struggled to start then even died right away. the second crank it started and stayed running, but still hesitated to start. the next time i tried to start it there were no problems due to it being dry. the next rain a couple days later it did the exact same thing.

I determined that the problem was the spark plug wires, so i changed those. i also swapped in new ngk plugs, and bought the distributor cap (after inspection current one looked brand new, so i suspected it had been replaced recently before i bought it) It had a brand new battery put in right before i bought it, so i theres no worries there.

I didnt have another problem for months even during a hard rain, snow, sleet, ice, etc. for roughly 4 months until now. Low and behold - we got a hard rain w/ high winds and dropping temp. It now will not start at all. It cranks over fine, but will not even get close to starting.

I have assumed it is either not getting spark or fuel. Since my fiancee was driving it when it stopped starting (oxymoron i know) i have yet to go check it out to determine this.

I am getting ready to go get the car, but thought i would give some heads up to everyone in case they can enlighten me on the crazy distributor on this car. i have owned a 92 lx and a 96 lx and the caps were way different than this one.

Questions:

is it the coil?...does this car even have a coil?



once i go see it and make some quick diagnoses i will come back and give an update and have more questions i'm sure.

thanks in advance.

 

i forgot to mention

heres what the cap looks like - i believe it to be "hitachi" type

http://www.autozone.com/R,2182612/ve...ductDetail.htm

 

I agree it is either fuel or igntion.

A simple test to determine which is to attempt starting w/ throttle body cleaner or starter fluid sprayed into air intake at filter box. If it starts and runs briefly, fuel flow delivery is likely cause of no-start, and if it does not start, ignition problem is indicated.

I have found that poor ignition components; distributor cap, wires, and spark plugs can result in failure of coil. Presumably higher coil voltage/current is required leading to insulation breakdown, but thats speculation.

There is a coil or ignitor test procedure in DIY section.

regards

 

i started diagnosing by checking for spark - done by a screwdriver in the spark plug wire touching to metal in order to see spark. there was none. i took off the distributor cap - which looked a ton worse than it did a few months ago. i purchased a new cap and rotor, installed, with the same results. i then went back to order the coil, but have to wait till tomorrow to install. i will let everyone know if that is the culprit. (i think the failing cap and rotor created the coil to go bad (am i thinking correctly - could this have happened??)

 

i did not try the starter fluid test because i did not have any with me, but if the coil is not the culprit, i will of course look into the fuel problem (i did check for a fuel pump noise while car was on, but my auto door locks kept interrupting)

 

update:

I replaced the cap, rotor, and gasket then checked for spark. i wanted to avoid the $73 coil, so i checked to see if that solved the problem. i was getting spark, but it would still not start. i then put the coil in and guess what....still will not start.

i was then forced to check for fuel problems since i just wasted the $73. i checked for fuel pressure by opening the gas cap then turned the key on to listen for the fuel pump. i did try this before, but never heard anything...at the time i was convinced it was that quiet. well this time i let it sit in the "on" position for a few seconds and i finally heard it. i then cranked it and it started right up.

since the car had been stranded in a random parking lot for a couple days now..i decided to get it home while it was running. after i got it home i shut it off and immediately tried to crank it....it just cranked and did not start. i tried again..this time waiting to hear for the fuel pump..then it started.

the more i drove it, the less i had to wait till the fuel pump kicked on.


Now to determine the problem: my fiancee recently was inches away from running out of gas. (gas light has been flaky lately) it putted to the gas station, but made it.

Question: could this have something to do with it?? possibly sucking up the crap at the bottom of the tank.

I have personally never replaced the fuel filter (although i have tried, but became unsuccessful after 95% complete...couldnt get the last bolt off due to such a tight squeeze) do you think this would help?

other recent minor problems:

The past couple months i have been getting pretty bad fuel mileage - 22highway going about 72 on cruise for hours and 18 city. And i drive pretty mildly. i've owned a 96 where i could get 32 easy highway

i've been experiencing is that sometimes i will open the gas cap and i bunch of pressure will release, but others i will get zero. so far it has been pretty inconsistent.

the engine has also been surging in cold weather after driving it for a few minutes then putting it in park - it will surge 4 or 5 times then continue to rev at 3K rpm or so then very slowly go down to normal


So to sum up my questions now:

Could running the car out of gas cause the fuel pump to become flaky?
could the fuel filter be clogged that much to have such great effect?
is it normal for a fuel pump to be on the verge of failure?
is it possible that my current recent problems have anything to do with the starting problem?
what should i do to diagnose the fuel problem?

 

Your fuel pump is not tuning on. You need to determine if power is getting to the fuel pump when you turn the key to the II position.

There is a 3-wire connector that goes to the fuel sending unit in the trunk that has a blk/yel wire. You should have 12V on that wire when you turn the key to the II position for a couple of seconds to power the fuel pump.

A volt meter will work here. You can also use a 12V test light and backprobe that blk/yel wire. Ground the other end and just look to see if the light turns on.

I straightened out one end of a mini-clip jumper wire that I got from RadioShack to backprobe that connector. I will try to post a picture of my setup later.

Regardless of what you try. If there is 12V and the fuel pump does not turn on, then the fuel pump is the problem. If you do not have 12V then the power supply (main fuel relay) is the likely culprit.

 

Possible problems could be...

Flaky ignition switch, not turning on the circuits immediately.

Flaky main relay, not switching power to the fuel pump immediately.

Bad fuel pump, not always running when it DOES get power.

It doesn't really sound like a plugged fuel filter. That would give you impaired power at higher speeds & climbing hills.

 

thanks for the replys, but it has been starting up first click the past couple times. maybe a fluke?? i am leaning towards an ingnition problem because when i bought the car (from a honda dealer) the key they gave me woudnt even turn in the ignition. i thought maybe it was the wrong one, but they determined that was the correct one.....it even opened up the doors and trunk. they ended up cutting me a brand new cut factory one using the orginal codes and now the key works everywhere. perhaps the key was just that worn and slownly wore out the ignition to where there are problems sometimes.

if it starts happening again i will start by checking the 12v at the fuel pump

Thanks guys!

 

So the problem continues....and is getting worse.

Last time I had thoughts that it was the ignition, but have since ruled that out...read below:

After my last post I got used to letting key sit in the off position for a second or two till I turned it all the way. It slowly became normal and I went on thinking the problem was over. Then it would rain and the same issue would come back. I would have to leave it in the on position for a couple seconds. Well last on my way to work it was cold and damp out (rained during the night, but had been clear for hours). It wouldn’t start. I kept turning it on and off and eventually I heard the fuel pump kick on and I started it up and drove to work. It rained a little during the day and when I went to leave work it wouldn’t start for ANYTHING. I knocked on switched it on and off, kept it on for long periods, and banged on the gas tank, but nothing. I went back Saturday to mess a little more and brought some starting fluid with me and sprayed it in the throttle body and it started up, but didn’t stay running cause the fuel pump won’t kick on, which means it has to be fuel related, so I was settled it was the fuel pump. However, I messed a little more tonight trying to check the voltage at the fuel pump. it was dark so I was messing with the flash light while holding the voltmeter all while the car was in the "on" position and suddenly I heard it click on. Total time I guess it was in the "on" position for 5 minutes or more. I quickly got out and tried it and it started right up. I drove it around a bit to charge up the battery then parked it. I went to start it up again quickly and it just cranked. After waiting 2 min or more though the fuel pump clicked on and it started up, but then after it was running a few seconds I heard a weird noise come from the engine (sounded like a power antenna). It lasted only a few seconds then went away. So I shut it off, opened the hood and listened this time as the fuel pump kicked on after a few minutes. There is a distinct pressure noise that I had never noticed before. So it now seems that anytime my car is cold and there is a speck of rain on the car or ground it has trouble starting.

Questions:
Is the noise up in the engine normal?
Since I have determined it is a fuel problem - How is the rain not allowing for the fuel pump to kick on?
Could it be the fuel pressure regulator?
Could any of this be related to my poor fuel mileage in the past few months?
Is the fuel pump just struggling and need replaced?