My transmission may be going out, but I think it may be the VSS or the lockup solenoid. I hope you guys can help me diagnose this, late last year I lost my job and am not doing well right now, I have very little money, the last thing I need is to lose my car to a repair I cannot afford. The car has many problems, as long as it "got me there" I haven't worried much about these problems... I know this is long but I need to include all these details - so in a chronological order here's the story:

1997 Accord SE 2.2L 4-cylinder non-VTEC F22B2 (auto trans) bought in May 2012 with 169,000 miles. Previous owner had the car only a month, he bought it from a friend of his son. Seller could not provide maintenance history other than saying that his son's friend maintained it well, but did no mechanical work on it (I was asking about the timing belt), I don't know if there were any previous owners and I haven't bought the Carfax for the car.

A few months after buying the car, I hooked up with an independent mechanic who did a timing belt replacement. At that point the transmission fluid looked pretty clean, but he very strongly advised me to not change the fluid because he had seen several similar older Honda transmissions fail soon after changing the fluid (if not recently changed.) I took his advice and haven't changed the fluid, car has around 240,000 miles now.

When I bought the car, the D4 lamp in the instrument panel didn't work (at all), but all the others did. Then later (a year?) the D4 lamp began lighting up properly, this lasted until late 2015 when the D4 light quit working (always off, even when starting the car, etc. like when I bought it) so if it were to now flash a transmission code, I wouldn't see it. CEL has always worked.

During the first year I had the car, the CEL came on twice, code was P0740 which has to do with the lock-up solenoids on the transmission, both times I was accelerating when getting on the highway. The same mechanic was doing unrelated work when I told him about this, he took the solenoid assembly off and cleaned the mesh screen, there was some debris on the screen but I don't remember exactly how much. Ironically I got the same P0740 code the following week after he cleaned the screen, but that was in 2013 and it has not occurred since, I have a cheap code reader and reset the CEL after reading a code. That is the only transmission code it has ever thrown.

Then later (early 2015 or so) the speedometer needle started going berserk - sometimes it would read correctly, or it would hover steadily at 18 MPH on the dial (regardless of speed), then weeks later it began fluctuating wildly all over the dial until it finally quit moving at all, it wrapped all the way around and is touching the rest pin at 0 MPH on the right side. When driving it usually moves to 6 o'clock, it moves rarely from there but never swings back around and reads correctly. The odometer and trip meter usually do not turn, sometimes I notice they are turning but it's rare. Odometer currently reads around 230,000 miles but add maybe 10,000 to that for this last year or so since speedo began to flake out.

Then in late 2015 it started throwing a P0401 code - "insufficient EGR flow". In November I lost a job I had so I didn't worry about it since it didn't affect the driveability of the car. Even with all these problems, the car has driven and shifted great up until around a month ago -- I was driving on a city street, came to a stop and the car just stalled out. It started back up OK, I ran my errand and came back home, but it stalled out like this maybe 5 times on this short trip, all after I had come to a stop. There were no noises or anything that I could tell were coming from the transmission, it just stalled out. Car idles well, I had the throttle plate and IACV cleaned.

Did some reading and learned that the EGR valve and passages in the intake get clogged up with carbon deposits, the EGR valve can get stuck open (should be closed at low speed) let air in the intake and cause the stalling. I took off the EGR valve and cleaned it, there was a lot of black powder in it. I know I need to take off the fuel rail and clean the EGR passages, but I'm not a great mechanic and haven't done that yet.

Cleaning out just the EGR valve immediately stopped the stalling out - the car drove fine for about a month and I thought I'd bought some time until I could clean the EGR passages. Then, just last Thursday, it started stalling out again when I would come to a stop during city driving. This time there was more of a "lurch" coming from the engine when it stalled out. Got home and took off the EGR valve to clean it again, cleaned it hoping I could buy a little more time again, but there was no heavy carbon buildup like before.

Test drove it around the block a couple of times but it began stalling out again with a bigger "lurch" from the engine than before. Got home, sitting still in driveway, car did fine in Park but when I put it in any gear and tried to move a little it would immediately lurch (harder than before) and stall out, and now there was a horrible metal-metal, rotating noise coming from the transmission when it lurched and stalled out (any gear, R/1/2/D3/D4).

Yesterday did some more reading and learned that the lockup solenoid can stick and the lockup condition remain when speed drops and cause a stall. I took off the lockup solenoid connector and measured the resistance using a good Fluke multimeter (solenoid still attached to car, one multimeter lead touching solenoid body), I got 13.1 ohms for one and 13.2 for the other. I'm not sure if that's within spec, service manual says it should be 14-16 ohms but other sources I read say 12-25 is OK. I rigged a jumper wire from the positive battery terminal to the solenoids and they both click OK when energized.

Today took off the lockup solenoid and cleaned the mesh screen using water only, there were about a dozen very small metal particulates on each screen, so that's all that have accumulated since it was cleaned in 2013. Put it back on and drove around the block again a few times, initially did OK but started stalling out again when stopped, the lurch was not as bad but still there.

More reading, the lockup only occurs in D3 and D4, so I began "experimenting" and drove a short distance in 2 gear but the stalling/lurching was still there when stopped. I even disconnected the lockup solenoid and drove a short distance (wondering if removing the ability for it lock up would change it) -- it threw a code of course for the disconnected solenoid, but the stalling/lurching was still there after coming to a stop.

SO I'm wondering if the transmission is going out or if possibly (in light of the flaky speedo) the VSS (vehicle speed sensor) could be causing all this -- maybe the VSS became intermittent causing the speedo to malfunction, and somehow the transmission still worked OK. Later, the VSS got "worse" and the stalling out business started. (BUT the stalling did stop immediately after I cleaned out the EGR valve about a month ago, so I don't know, I thought I'd found the cause.) I've looked but can't seem to find the answer to the question IS A WORKING VSS NECESSARY FOR PROPER TRANSMISSION FUNCTION?? My mechanic thought so, and that a bad VSS would throw a code and also cause the car to not run and shift well, if at all. But I've seen no VSS code on the CEL or the D4 light (but then D4 light hasn't worked for the last several months.) Nor have I seen ANY transmission code on the CEL since those three P0740's which stopped 3 years ago.

To test the VSS, service manual says disconnect it and measure the voltages on the 3 terminals of its cable, if OK then the VSS is bad. I know where the VSS is on the car, but I need to take off some stuff to get to it, so I called it a day today without checking the VSS, so that's where I am. Would appreciate it if you can answer my question whether a bad VSS will cause transmission malfunction, and what I should do at this point. Thanks!

 

Can we start with the current list of codes you are getting?

 

A VSS will not cause your symptoms, based on the metal-to-metal noise and metal particles in the solenoid screen, you no longer have to worry if your transmission is going out...Elvis has left the building...

 

Even if the D4 light does not turn on, you will still be able to read codes using your scanner. Let us know what codes you find.

When the speedometer wasn't working, did your cruise control work?

 

Thanks a lot for the replies. I walked the 4 miles from my house to the Honda dealer and spoke with a service advisor who said, based on my description, the tranny has just failed. Darn, I was hoping it was the VSS, TCM or something "external" that could be fixed. Dr. Drivability, that's quite an ironic comment about Elvis, I live in Memphis, Tennessee...

PAhonda & poorman212: I've had the car almost 4 years, the only transmission codes it's thrown were the three P0740's, but those were in 2012 and 2013, none since then. The only CEL code now is the EGR code P0401. The service advisor said a transmission can go out without throwing any codes. The CEL has always worked but the D4 light hasn't worked for the last several months, is it possible that a transmission code would flash the D4 light but not the CEL??

The cruise control has never worked since I bought the car, forgot to mention that, I know the VSS feeds the cruise control and the speedo and that's how you can check it. I've read that the solder joints on the circuit board of the gauge assembly go bad, but since the VSS is not the problem, it will have to wait until I get the transmission repaired to tackle all the other things that don't work.

I have someone coming over to look at it, possibly tomorrow. Can we theorize about what could be wrong? Is it possible that a faulty part can be replaced without rebuilding the whole transmission? Car runs fine in Park but when I move the shift lever to any forward gear or reverse (auto trans, foot on the brake pedal, car not moving), it makes the metal-metal sound and lurches, and can stall out. Thanks again

 

Transmissions are tough to diagnose. You may be better off putting in a used transmission. The mid-90s accord transmissions were pretty solid.

You may want to drain and refill the transmission. You can try dextron II (or equivalent). It is a long shot, but may be worth a shot for the price of 3 quarts of fluid?

 

OK thanks, I may try changing the fluid. I'm going to have someone come over and look at it, the guy that did the timing belt isn't good about returning my calls, but a neighbor knows someone who does things "very cheaply" and I'm going to try to get him over here. I just looked at the price list of a local salvage yard and a transmission (the whole thing) is only $75 with a $25 core charge, but I don't know how I would go about choosing one, cars that old are going to have lots of miles, and who knows, the car could have been scrapped because the trans went out.

I've read here about Valvoline Maxlife and the Red Line product - should I use one of those?

 

Only option I can afford right now is to replace the transmission with one from a salvage yard ($125 or so). I have an ex-coworker who can do it, he did the same swap for his son who has a 1996 Accord (mine is a 1997). I asked him about knowing whether the transmission from the salvage yard will work, he said they are guaranteed, and come from cars that were in collisions, not because a certain part failed... Comments?

(1) What replacement parts do I need to have on hand besides transmission fluid? Rear main seal? What else?

(2) Honda dealer told me the car/TCU would have to be reprogrammed for a replacement transmission to work - is this correct?

Thanks

 

Only option I can afford right now is to replace the transmission with one from a salvage yard ($125 or so). I have an ex-coworker who can do it, he did the same swap for his son who has a 1996 Accord. I asked him about knowing whether the transmission from the salvage yard will work, he said they are guaranteed, and come from cars that were in collisions, not because a certain part failed... Comments?

(1) What replacement parts do I need to have on hand besides transmission fluid? Rear main seal? What else?

(2) Honda dealer told me the car/TCU would have to be reprogrammed for a replacement transmission to work - is this correct?

Thanks