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1996 Accord EX won't start. Sometimes.

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  #1  
Old 03-22-2012, 10:22 PM
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Default 1996 Accord EX won't start. Sometimes.

I'm new to Hondas so I might give more information than necessary. It's a 96 Accord EX with a 4 cylinder 2.2 VTEC. Sometimes it won't start. Engine turns over fast, there's usually spark verified with a timing light. A couple of times I found no spark. One constant is that when it won't start there's no 2nd click from the main relay (fuel pump relay) and no whirr from the fuel pump. At first we thought the problem was moisture related. We've since determined that it doesn't seem to be related to humidity or temperature. We found that separating the spark plug wires got it to start initially and the timing light showed a double flash when it wouldn't start like there was bleed from another wire. I replaced the cap and wires. No change. This was before I knew about the main relay and the click that signaled the fuel pump turning on.

1. Turns over but won't start.
2. Has spark. Replaced plug wires and distributor cap.
3. Fuel pump doesn't run when it won't start.
4. Only one click from the main relay.
5. Re-soldered main relay. Didn't fix the problem so I replaced the relay. No change.
6. Checked for codes by jumping the service connector under the glovebox. This was interesting. Nothing from the check engine light but the ABS light blinked what I think was a 13 and a 21.
7. When it won't start the check engine light stays on.
8. When it's going to start the check engine light goes out, fuel pump whirrs and the D4 light comes on.
9. Tonight I found if it won't start I can leave the key in the ON position and after 10-20 seconds the relay clicks, fuel pump whirrs, D4 light comes on. Turn the key and it starts. This may be an anomaly and might not work tomorrow.
10. Sometimes it just starts like there's nothing wrong. Rain or shine. 45-80 degrees.

I used to work on cars all the time. It was easy and fun. Then came computerized systems and imports. Not so easy but still fun. I'm not completely without a clue but this has me baffled. Any ideas?
 
  #2  
Old 03-22-2012, 10:31 PM
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Check the fuses for the ECU. There is a backup/radio fuse in the engine bay fuse box that is 7.5 amp. This resets the ECU and the radio, so have the code for your radio to work.

There is another ECU fuse and I can't remember if it is in the engine bay fuse box or the one under the drivers dash.

When the car is having trouble starting, pull that backup/radio fuse for a minute. Plug in the fuse. Then see if the car starts.

The possible causes are the ECU, ignition switch, or the wiring. To me, this sounds like an ECU problem, but diagnose first.

I would go to car-part.com to search for engine computers. This site search for items in junkyards by price or distance. This will give you an idea of what the ECU will cost you. It shouldn't be too expensive. You will need an ECU from a 96 or 97 EX accord that has the same transmission as your accord (manual or automatic).
 
  #3  
Old 03-23-2012, 05:30 PM
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There is a link in the Common DIY Threads sticky at the top of this section where you can download a pretty good service manual that will help you through the testing PA is talking about.
 
  #4  
Old 03-23-2012, 09:00 PM
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Thanks for the responses. The car started at 10:00 last night (after cranking it once without a start and then turning the key to ON and waiting a few seconds for the relay to click and the fuel pump to run, 7:00 this morning (after cranking it 3 times) and again this afternoon it started on the first try for a trip to the grocery store and back. High humidity, temps from 50 to 78. It never stalls or stutters. Once it starts it runs quite well. The non-start condition doesn't seem to be affected by the engine being home or cold.

It started 4 times over 24 hours which is out of the ordinary. I'll try pulling the backup fuse under the hood next time it acts up. I did find some ECUs nearby for a good price. I'm not a fan of buying parts as a form of testing but I might go that route if I can't nail this down soon.
 
  #5  
Old 03-23-2012, 10:09 PM
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Probably the easiest way to catch the problem while it is happening is by wiring a test light to see if the distributor is losing power when the car is not starting.

If you go to the common diy thread on top of the gen tech help forum, there is a link to online shop manuals. Get the 94 shop manual in one of the links provided.

In the electrical section, there is a wire harness and ground location. Try to find and clean all the grounds in your car. I would use a wire brush or some sandpaper to clean the eyelet and the ground bolt. G101 on the firewall on the driver's side of your car is an important one.

I would also disconnect the battery and clean all ends of both battery cables.
 
  #6  
Old 03-23-2012, 10:40 PM
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If you want to try a new ECU I have a 97 non-vtech auto trans ECU I will sell for $20
PM me if interested.
 
  #7  
Old 06-01-2012, 05:00 PM
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The girlfriend (and the car) left a few weeks ago. Prior to that she found that it would start *every* time if she turned the key to ON and waited for the green D light to come on which coincided with the second click. This meant she had to wait 1 to 30 seconds before she could start it. But it would eventually start every time.

3 weeks prior to leaving she rear ended a stopped car which pushed in the grill (and everything behind it). The driver side headlight was destroyed, a power steering tank hose got cut by the PS pulley and the PS tank was cracked and the hood was folded up. I looped a rope in various places around the cross member that goes side-to-side across the radiator and used a 2x4 for leverage to pull the cross member back into place and jumped on the hood a few times to flatten it. It's not pretty but the hood latch/release works. I bent a few other parts back (roughly) where they belonged and installed the new tank, hoses and headlight.

Parts were $102 including shipping. The complete headlight assy was $33 before shipping & handling. I was amazed at how good it was and so cheap! So thanks for the helpful tips.
 
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