Hi all,

I apologize for resurrecting a 3-year-old thread, but I'm a brand new owner of a used Honda Accord 2008 I4 EX-L. It has 143K on it and I had no idea about any VTC actuator or oil consumption issues. I was going by Consumer Reports and other sites with regards to reliability. I didn't know about CarComplaints.com until recently. Anyway, here is my problem...

Nissan Altima 2000 / History
I came from a Altima with 180k miles on it. Just to throw this out there, I had minimal to no oil loss between oil change intervals. I started using full synthetic oil at 80k and I changed the oil twice a year (about year 6000-7000 miles). I never had to worry about oil consumption or burning for 15 years.

2008 Honda Accord / Now
When I bought the Accord, I immediately noticed the cold start rattle due to the VTC actuator. I was told by the dealer that it in itself doesn't cause any damage to the engine. I was willing to live with it because it was only for 2-3 seconds on cold start. I was also told that they normally don't replace it just for the rattling sound because there is a high chance it will come back. Fine. I did have the dealer perform an oil change with Full Synthetic High Mileage Mobil 1 to establish a baseline for myself. That was on April 11th.

A few weeks ago I started noticing the same kind of rattle, but lower sounding, and whenever I accelerated. I thought it was a heat shield, but it sill sounded like the cold start ratcheting.

Shortly after, I noticed that the Oil Pressure Warning light flashed 2-3 single flashes two or three times in an entire week. It was NOT constantly lit and it was NOT continuously flashing. Of course, not being used to this light coming on in my Altima, I thought it was odd and my initial impression was bad sensor rather than low oil, but in my mind I decided to take it to the dealer. However, I didn't stop the car immediately to have it towed or anything like that. I drove it for about 1 week. I did check the dipstick and I saw drops/specks on it but no clean/clear indication of the oil in between the two dots.

I dropped off the car at the dealer yesterday and today they called me and told me that the engine was 2.5 quarts low. He said that they will change the VTC actuator and also inspect other parts of the engine to check for any damage.

I asked him what the likeliness is that there is damage to the engine due to the 2.5 quarts low. He said it was very probable.

I'm not an expert in automobiles, but I took good care of my Altima for 15 years/180k miles and never ran into an issue like this.

If I knew this thing burned oil like crazy, I would have had no problem in topping it off every month or so.

Any ideas? Do you think the synthetic oil would have prevented or lessened any damage?

 

There is a pretty good chance the low oil level and the resultant low oil pressure caused at least some engine damage; how much will be difficult to quantify.

Note, all cars use some oil (even cars which don't appear to show a reduction on the dipstick, usually due to fuel dilution); when you buy a new (or new to you) car, always make sure you frequently check the oil during the first few months of ownership to develop a usage baseline.

 

Honda Canada sent me a notice extending my warranty to 8 years/200k kms due to "Excessive Oil Consumption". My engine has already been replaced. The warranty is available to subsequent owners

 

I have OCD when it come to checking the oil level in the cars I drive. You really need to do this on a regular time/distance "base". Things with the engine/pcv/ect can change and impact oil loss.

Heck, I've checked the oil level twice already in a brand new car that I've had for ~3 weeks. Yes, once before I even drove it off the lot (45 miles on it) - should have seen the face of the sales person ...then about two and half weeks later when it had 1K on it - yea the wife can put some miles on one in the summer when she is not working.

It is currently "on vacation" in the DC area, yes when it gets home I will be checking it again.

Ok, back on topic.....I suggest that eveyone check the oil level in a car AT LEAST once a month no matter how many miles the car is driven.

 

I thought I would update you guys on what happened and also ask several questions.

The dealership did a repair on my car that involved replacing the VTC actuator (which made the cold rattle go away) and replacing the timing chain because it was stretched (probably from excessive heat due to lack of oil?) This cost me about $1100. After that, they put me on a 1000 mile oil consumption test.

I started checking the dip stick regularly, and I noticed that in 1500 miles it lost about 0.5 quart (from top dot in dipstick to the half point between the two dots). I took the car to the dealership again and they told me that there is abnormal oil consumption and it is most likely due to the piston rings. They quoted me $2400 to have them replaced along with the spark plugs. This is when my jaw dropped. I bought this car used with ~140K on it thinking that with Honda's reliability and reputation I could easily take it above 200K or 250K miles.

The technician told me that if I ignore the rings, the problem will "get worse". He said the oil leak into the cylinder causes issues with the spark plugs leading to misfiring and fuel efficiency problems.

My first question: Does it cause further damage to the engine? Is it sufficient to just keep topping off the oil and replacing the spark plugs at smaller intervals? Or must I bite the bullet and perform the proper repair?

My second question: Does it really cost that much to replace the piston rings? Also, how do they know it's the rings? Do they check them directly or do they just look at the symptoms and deduce it from that? Could the problem be something else?

I mentioned to him that I would like to complain to Honda with a letter. He told me to actually call them by phone to see if they can help out in anyway. I am going to attack it from the angle that I left my extremely reliable (in comparison) 15-year-old Nissan Altima 2000 to arrive at this Honda junk and how it would affect my recommendations to friends and family members in the future. Hopefully, they will feel bad and help me out.

Third question: We have an independent shop here that specializes in Honda and Acura. Do you guys recommend that route, at least for getting a second opinion/diagnosis?

Fourth question: Since I'm a dipstick virgin, the technician told me that it takes 1 quart of oil to take the oil level from the bottom dot to the top dot. I just wanted to confirm this with you guys--Is he correct?

Fifth question: If Honda did their work properly, couldn't they have recommended replacing the whole engine altogether? Doesn't it cost like $3500? If yes, it's cheaper than both repairs I mentioned above. What are your thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

 

First, a comment; if I read your post correctly, your engine is consuming a quart every 3,000 miles. That is NOT considered excessive oil consumption by any measure for a car with 140,000 miles on the clock.

Your questions:

1. Just keep topping off the oil, there will be no harm to the engine (unless you let the oil level get very low).
2. Yes, doing a ring job is expensive, typically you need to pull the motor and disassemble the engine. As for the diagnosis, oil loss is typically due to leaking, valve stem seals, or past the rings (which may have other implications). I'm not really sure what they've done for their diagnosis, but based upon what you're saying about them, I'd find a different facility to maintain my cars if I were you.
3. A second opinion is never a bad idea.
4. Yes, one quart/liter from top dot to bottom dot on dipstick.
5. I strongly suspect an entire new engine will cost well north of $3,500.

Were I in your shoes (in fact, I am in your shoes with one of my vehicles), I would just monitor the oil level and top it off whenever the level is down near the bottom dot of the dipstick.

FWIW, years ago I had a car which consumed a quart of oil every 750 miles. I bought the car cheap because the former owner's mechanic said the engine was done. Yeah, about that; I drove it another 120,000 miles (adding lots of oil), before I sold it (for well more than I paid for it).

 

Thanks, shipo. I feel a little more at ease. I'll keep watching the oil levels and number of miles driver for every quart just to confirm that.

Regarding the answer to the first question, so I don't have to pay any special attention to the spark plugs, etc.?

 

Nope, only replacing them on the regular schedule per the Owner's Manual.

 

If it's burning oil from blowing by the rings, then your sparkplugs might (just maybe) need replacing on a shorter schedule. Keep the sparkplugs on the suspicious list in case you begin seeing any misfiring. But for a quart every 3000 miles, I bet that's not even the case.

 

Thanks for the input guys...

First of all, after more driving, I found out that my oil consumption is about 1 quart for every 1500-2000 miles, not 3000 miles as I previously mentioned. I'm assuming that driving conditions affect this as well.

Second, I do notice some vehicle shaking/vibration sometimes when I accelerate around 20-25 MPH and after 2000 RPMs and then it goes away. I don't really know the symptoms of engine misfiring, but I read that vehicle vibration is one of them.

I should probably replace the plugs anyway since I bought this car with high mileage and I don't know the history of it.

Finally, does this oil consumption affect the exhaust system at all (catalytic converter, etc.)?