I apologize if this is a redundant question but I have had no success searching the site so far.

I have a problem with my 97 accord, 2 door Vtec manual transmission.
It will start and immediately die. After troubleshooting many things such as distributor problems, fuel etc and have traced the problem back to being in my "on" circuit. I dont know the real name for that circuit but that is what I call it.

Here's the short version. The car works fine with the ignition in the start position but not the run position. In the run position very few things work. Things that do not work include the power windows and heat/AC blower, and the engines dies immediately when I release the key from the start position.

Here is what I did to get the car home. I unhooked the small wire from the starter, then at the connector on the fuse block for the cable that goes to my ignition key switch I jumpered from the "start" wire to the "on" wire.

To start and run the car I turn the ignition to on, put the car in neutral and set the brake. Then pop the hood and use a wire to start the car by going straight off the battery to the starter long enough to turn the engine over.
the reason I have to do this under the hood is that with the jumper in place the starter would continue to turn as long as the key was turned to on. so I have unhooked the starer. In essence the on position is both start and on.

So back on base here, I am pretty sure the problem is in what I am going to call the "on" wire/circuit. This is a yellow wire from the ignition key switch to the connector in the fuse box. What happens beyond that connector I do not know, but this is where the problem is. If someone can point me to a wiring diagram or can give me some ideas I would appreciate it.



More details:
The wire/circuit from the ignition key switch I am referring to is Yellow and labeled IG2 in my Haynes book on page 12-6

In this same harness is the following:
White/Black (ACC)
White (BAT)
Black/Yellow (IG1)
Yellow (IG2)
Black/white (ST)

with the connector unhooked the continuity is as follows"
in the ACC position ACC and BAT have continuity
in the ON position ACC BAT IG1 and IG2 all have continuity
in the Start position BAT IG1 and ST have continuity

I have a jumper between temporarily between Black/white (ST) connecting it with Yellow (IG2)

Again if anyone can point me to more information about where that yellow wire goes after the connector int he fuse box I would really appreciate it.

Or better yet is if someone can just say "Hey Dummy you just need to check relay _____" and tell me where to find that relay.

 

The spooner link I posted in the Online Manuals thread in the DIY section has a 94 manual that you can download. There are some differences between the 94 and 97, but not many. The ignition system is the same. See page 23-74 (electrical section Ignition system)

The terminology in the manual for key position is 0=Key out, I=accessory, II=normal running position, III=start.

Your ignition switch passed the continuity tests, but it really sounds like it may be the source of your problems.

I would remove that jumper wire, so the car is back to stock wiring, then do some tests first.

The white wire at the ignition switch should have 12V at all times.

Look at the power distribution for the KH model (page 23-46 to 23-50). Also the fuse numbers are listed in the electrical section under fuses.

Have the key in the II position for all tests.

One of the pins for fuse #7 and #8 under the dash should have 12V for the IG2 wire. If you have 12V, then check those fuses.

For IG1, fuse 1, 2, 3, and 4 under the dash should have 12V on one of the fuse pins.

 

Thanks for your links. I downloaded several manuals and printed off the wiring diagrams. I now have atelast some direction to go with it. I am not sure that I will do anything with it untill monday morning though.

Any other ideas are always appreciated.

the more I think about it, the more I feel it is a relay...

Spencer

 

From what you are describing, there is no relay that would cause your problems. A bad relay would cause one component to not work, not everything you listed.

The ignition switch is really a mechanical relay, and there is no relay to power the starter, coil, etc.

It will either be a fuse, the ignition switch, or possibly the wiring.

 

Stupid question:

On a wiring diagram is the symbol ----> )---- a connector?

Looking over the wiring diagrams I am actually confused why my jumper would make it work. Seems that even though my ignition switch passed the continuity test it might be where the problem is.

Did I mention that it was an intermittent problem before it finally just died?
I have never seen a fuse cause an intermittent problem. In theory could a fuse getting weak might make an intermittent connection?

Is there a fused link in the wire anywhere I should look for? I do not see any on the diagrams so far. However I have not found anything showing anything that would cut out the engine on that yellow wire either, it appears to be fans and gauges. These are the same fans and gauges that would intermittently turn off before, but because it was an intermittent problem I was never able to trace them out.

 

Just to make sure I am understnading correctly. The ignition switch is the key switch correct? There isnt some other relay or switch somewhere I should be looking at?

One thing I didnt look at was how the ohms compared on the yellow wire versus other connections. It very well could be that it is making a slight connection, but with a very high resistance.
How are the wires attached to the ignition switch? That connection could be weak as well I suppose.

 

try a very simple test

start the car normally ,if it die right away..........restart and don't let go of the key, hold it slight off the start position, if car stays running you need the electrical part of ignition switch ,,,,,,,,,get it from the dealer

 

Thanks for all the help everyone I really really appreciate it.

I found the problem to indeed be in the ignition switch. With it being labor day and the dealers being closed I have a temporary fix and it appears to be working ok for now, untill the solder melts or breaks off the plate. Hopefully that will not happen before I can get a new switch in. I am scared though at how much they are going to want to charge for a new switch. Anyone have any suggestions to get one at a decent price?

so hear is what I found: Inside the ignition switch is several small metal contact plates. One of the plates that is connected to the BAT wire has a groove worn in it. This groove is worn where the bump for the ON position is suppose to make contact with the plate and send the wire down the yellow wire. Everything inside the switch had a lot of oxidation on it. I cleaned it up good and it still had a lot of resistant. So I broke out the soldering iron and filled in the groove with a small amount of solder. I don't expect this to last very long. Since I have to tear it apart again when the new switch comes in I have left the cover off so I can quickly jumper it should the solder fix fail.

Thanks again for everyone's help and the links you pointed me to. I really appreciate it!

I will report back with a cost of the switch when I get one in. If anyone has any suggestions though of an alternate to a dealer I would appreciate that info.

Spencer