I will throw this out to the rest of the community as I am wondering if it has something to do with the starter signal not being received at the main relay. The symptom would be power for two seconds to the fuel pump, but when engine is cranked, without a starter signal power would not be restored to the fuel pump thus not allowing the engine to start. Either that, maybe I just need another cup of coffee!

 

I was thinking no start signal from starter but I believe that might come from crank sensor. Not sure will check more after work. Also was told a low battery would cause this but seems to turn over fine.

 

Fuel supply system circuit diagram is attached.

Driver’s under-dash Fuse No. 13 (7.5A) protects and provides battery power (+) to the (1) PCM start input, and (2) main relay (fuel pump relay). It is called the “Starter Signal Fuse”. A more apt name probably should have been “start input fuse”.

Fuse No. 13 via the Blu/Orn wires provides the start signal to the PCM and main relay when the engine is cranking.

The main relay actually consist of two relays inside (one relay is for power to the injectors, power inputs to the PCM, and the IAC valve; while another relay is for power to the fuel pump). Fuse No. 13 is related to the fuel pump relay.

With the ignition in START, Fuse No. 13 provides voltage (+) one side of the coil of the fuel pump relay. When the PCM send a ground signal (-) via the Grn/Yel wire to other side of the coil of the relay, the fuel pump coil relay is energized and the relay contact is closed, allowing voltage (+) from driver’s under-dash Fuse No. 1 (15A) to the feed the fuel pump to run during cranking.

With the ignition in ON or START, Fuse No. 1 provides voltage (+) to one side of the coil of the other relay. The other relay is energized and the relay contact is closed, allowing voltage (+) from Under-hood Fuse No. 46 (15A) to feed power to the injectors, PCM, and IAC valve via the Yel/Blk wires. In addition, with the other relay energized and contact closed, power will then be allowed from Fuse No. 46 through to the fuel pump relay coil . When the PCM send a ground signal (-) via the Grn/Yel wire to other side of the coil of the relay, the fuel pump coil relay is energized and the relay contact is closed, allowing voltage (+) from driver’s under-dash Fuse No. 1 (15A) to the feed the fuel pump to run.

Check whether power is at the Yel/Blk wire from the main relay with the ignition in ON or START; power from Under-hood Fuse No. 46 has to go to the PCM and to one side of the fuel pump relay coil. Something may be affecting the PCM from sending the ground signal to the other side of the fuel pump relay coil.

 

Ok I checked fuses all good. Downloaded print will do more today. But it's cold might have to take to shop. Just hate paying someone I just don't know this new stuff.

 

When I crank the car over the green light blinks does this help.

 

When you turn the ignition switch to ON (II), the Immobilizer System indicator should come on for a few seconds, then go out. If it is blinking, then it may be due to a weak battery or the Immobilizer System is not recognizing the key transponder.

Check the battery first. A weak battery may have enough juice to turn the starter motor (it will turn with 9 or 10 volts), but, not enough to run the other electrical systems, particularly the PCM. With a weak battery the Immobilizer System and PCM can't communicate.

 

Ok battery is good also tried to jump still same is there a way to test pcm

 

do I just replace pcm or take it to dealer .

 

The starting issue is probably due to the Immobilizer System circuit. The immobilizer system consists of the ignition key, immobilizer receiver unit, immobilizer indicator light, PGM-FI main relay, fuel pump, and the PCM or ECM.

With the ignition switch in ON (II) or START (III), the immobilizer receiver unit and the PCM or ECM receive an “ignition on” signal through fuse 46 and the PGM-FI main relay. The PCM or ECM then sends power to the ignition key transponder through the immobilizer receiver unit. The transponder then sends a coded signal back to the PCM or ECM through the receiver. If the signal is correct, the PCM or ECM will enable the car’s fuel supply system by grounding the PGM-FI main relay via the Grn/Yel wire.

1. You already checked the battery. Next check the connection and wiring at Ground G101.

2. Try to start the car with a different key to the car.

3. If you have an OBD-II reader/scanner, check if there are any stored diagnostic trouble code(s). P1607 would indicate an Engine Control Module (ECM)/Powertrain Control Module (PCM) Internal Circuit Malfunction. However, there can still be an issue with the ECM/PCM even if there is no trouble code.

Options for testing:
1. Get the Immobilizer Brake Code. The Immobilizer brake code is a 5 digit numeric code that is enter by using sequences of moves with the ignition switch and parking brake. The brake code is obtained from the dealer. If it starts, you can try reprogramming, testing wires, substituting PCM, etc.

2. Try reprogramming the Immobilizer System with the corresponding keys.

3. If you have access to a known good PCM and the corresponding key, you can substitute that to see if it will work. See Honda TSB 98-024 for some info. Currently, Honda uses more updated hardware/software than referred to in the bulletin.

4. At the Immobilizer Receiver Unit (located on the steering column), test wires at the 5-P harness connector with multimeter. Backprobing of some wires may be necessary. Tests can also be done at PCM wiring harness connectors. I won't get into the testing at this point yet.

 

One other diagnostic tool I recommend at this point for you is to; 1. Disconnect the single wire that plugs into the starter, 2 assemble a jumper wire to the pos terminal of the battery, 3 with the car in park, e-brake engaged and the key in the On position, 4 take the hot jumper wire form the positive battery terminal and touch the connector on the starter where the single wire was unplugged. The car at this point should crank over and with luck it will start. If it does not start then you are likely dealing with something in the immobilizer as redbull stated.