All, my poor accord threw the P0441 code the other day. we've been trying to troubleshoot it and, unfortunately, are close to calling it an ECM issue.

So, i'm looking for any insight anyone may have on this topic.

So far, using one of those car manuals (not sure the author as bought it on a cd on ebay), we've checked the following:

1) the vacuum. there is vacumm. it feels significant, but we don't have a vacuum gauge. vacuum is supposed to be 8kPa or greater

2) the evap solenoid purge valve electrical connections. all is okay per the book.

3) The pfsw (purge flow switch), part 1. the voltage across the electrical connection to the ECM connector "A" (a 26 pin connector) shows ~5V (pin 24 to pin 12), supposedly, >1V is okay per the book to go to part 2 of this check.

4) The pfsw (purge flow switch), part 2. the voltage across the electrical connection to the ECM connector "A" (a 26 pin connector) shows ~0V (pin 24 to pin 12) with terminals 3 and 4 jumpered. This is supposedly okay per the book

5) per the book, the above checks point to replacing the purge flow switch. However, from past history, there may be more or something else that needs to be fixed and that 5V in #3 above is of concern since, a) one would think that being a switch, the voltage would be full (batt voltage) or 0V (open circuit) and 2) if its something else, why replace a perfectly good switch?

In case you're wondering, the battery checked out correctly at ~12V. Also, we checked to make sure there is vacuum on the system when the RPMs are up and this is okay.

oh. and my apologies if there is a post somewhere. i tried all the key words i could think of, but i'm not as car or forum savvy as I'd like to be.

thanks...

If anyone has insight, we could use the time saver.

thanks.

 

You disconnected the vacuum supply line to the Evap purge flow switch, and confirmed decent vacuum (> 2" hg not much so sounds OK).

Next check for vacuum to the Evap control cannister top hose w/ engine running. If vacuum is available, the Evap control cannister should be replaced. If not available continue.

Check evap purge control solenoid valve for function by checking vacuum at evap control cannister top hose (same as previous check) by disconecting electrical connector. If vacuum is available, then solenoid is OK, If vacuum is not available, solenoid has failed. It's a normally closed, powered open solenoid valve.

If all these check, then ECM may be faulty. You can find them for < $50 on ebay.

Make sure you understand the vacuum checks. Suggest an inexpensive vacuum gauge to be sure you have adequate vacuum.

good luck

 

Thanks TexasHonda!

While i was in the process of looking for the inexpensive vacuum gauge, we did another check and found out that the purge control solenoid no longer seemed to be functioning (electrical checks no longer giving the same values).

It was removed and the resistance checked. You'd think the resistance would be in the <100 Ohm range, but we were getting kOhm measurements and the readings would vary with temperature and pressure.

So, now looking to find a replacement valve, but ebay seems to only have the 136200-1320 and not the -1230. No one seems to have the actual Honda PN either.

Does anyone know where to find info on these parts to see what is different?

The best price i could find on the internet was $172, so before I shell out the funds, thought I'd see if anyone had more info on the part makeup or where to find one much less expensive!

Thanks,
Teahtime

 

A long shot, but try to find local junk cars w/ car-part.com, call and ask if you can pull the part you want. Most don't want to deal w/ trouble, but if you tell them you'll pay $30-$50, they might get interested.

Parts are likely same for 4-cylinder Accord, but I don't know this for certain.

good luck

 

Went to two of the pick a part places. First one had 1 honda and a similar valve solenoid. I need the 136200-1230 and the one i found was 136200-1160. Since we had to pay $2 each to get in, decided that we might as well buy it (it was only $5) and see if it would work.

At the 2nd place, we found the old 1995 V6 ECM for $40. figured that if there was more than one problem, then we'd have the ECM. However, when I got back, I found that the ECM PN should be 37820-P0G-A51 (and I bought the 37820-P0G-A50).

Does anyone know the differences? The A50s are still being sold, but the dealer lists the A51 for all vehicles. Depending on which sites you visit, there is also an A52 that was superseded by an A53, and an A54.

On a similar vein, does anyone know where to find info on what the ecm does (this one specifically would be better, but i'm learning under duress)

More to come on this and the repairs. Thanks for the input thus far. it keeps me going...Maybe i can drive my car next week :]

 

Check ebay. They have lot's of the A50's and no A51's. One part lists A51 as interchangeable. Looks like a change was made to your vehicle at some point.

good luck

 

I guess it was EBAY that made me ask the question. On EBAY, they state that the A50 and the A51 are interchangeable, but the also state that the ECU is for a V6 VTECH (though i think they meant VTEC). From what I could gather, the V6 was not made with a VTEC. I'm getting off topic, but, there must have been some reason the manufacturer revised the Part number, so I figured I should ask if anyone knew anything.

The "pick-a-part" ECU worked to check out the functionality of my current ECU so unless they are both broke in the same manner, the 5Volt question above seems to be the norm rather than not. I'm keeping the thing just in case. The -1160 part is tiestrapped in place for now (mounting differs) to see if i get back the CEL code. Sitting in the driveway, there is a vacuum present when upping the RPMs. And no i haven't found the pressure gauge yet :[

I'm ready to drive it around to see what happens. Cross your fingers. If this works, I'm good to go...

More to come later this week (hopefully not sooner with bad news)

 

Well, i've now driven the car for 50+ miles and no CELs! Yea!

Just thought I'd close this (hopefully) thread with this info. If it goes bad, i'll be back, but, for now. I'm closing the book on this. Hopefully, any info i've posted is of use.

i'm off to work on the reason i've only driven 50+ miles since the last post (my car threw up green goop --antifreeze)